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1.5 dCi starting problems check list

128K views 84 replies 36 participants last post by  allanboland63 
#1 · (Edited)
There seems to be a recurring non-start problem with the 1.5 dCi; there have been numerous threads regarding this recently. Rather than type the same thing in response to each new poster, I thought it'd be good to make a check list of basic, initial tests to narrow down the problem. The thread can be linked to in future when a new non-start thread pops up.

This list is not exhaustive and is not necessarily designed to find the fault. It is designed to furnish you with a better picture of the health of various components of your engine that can affect starting. This thread is a starting point only: further research may be required by you after running these tests to determine the exact nature of the fault.

To anyone with a reasonable level of mechanical knowledge, this information will be teaching granny to suck eggs so it is not designed for you. I'm well aware that you know all of this information (and more) already. This is to help people who may not know about these things to check.

Much of the data has come from my (2001-2005 Clio) Haynes. If you haven't got a Haynes, buy one: it's cheap and will help you.

One last thing: the below is only to be used and acted upon if you have more than 2 brain cells. Please check to see if you're an idiot or not before trying any of these tests. If you find that you are an idiot, please do not procede any further. If you break your own car, it is your fault. You are an adult: make an informed, reasoned, balanced decision to continue. If you get a kick out of fixing things that are broken and enjoy saving money, please continue.




So, your dCi didn't (or struggled to) start this morning and you've just posted a thread about it on the forum.

Did it turn over fast or slowly?

Put a multimeter across the battery terminals with the engine off. What is the voltage? It should be ~12.6v (Haynes, 2010) or more.

Now put the multimeter across the terminals with the engine idling. What is the voltage? It should be between ~13.5v and ~14.8v (Haynes, 2010). If it is, congratulations; your alternator and auxilary belt are working well.

If your voltage is low at rest, your battery *may* be at fault, you may have a parasitic drain or your charging system may have a fault (which should show up in the idle test).


Are there any DTCs?

Diagnostic Trouble Codes. Ideally use CAN Clip or DDT2000 to read the Renault-specific codes. Alternatively, use a cheap eBay ELM327 wireless/bluetooth adapter and a free app (Torque for Android or something similar for Apple) to interrogate the car's ECUs.
If there are DTCs stored, what are they? Google the code to find out more.
The code could be a red herring! Delete all of them and run/start the engine again. Now reconnect the code reader and check for DTCs again. Are there any there or are they all gone? Any new ones now are likely to be genuine codes, not red herrings. Investigate these.

If a code points to a particular sensor, the resistance readings of that sensor can commonly be found in Haynes or online. Before condemning the sensor, test it with your multimeter!

Clean the TDC sensor.

Top Dead Centre.
This is recommended commonly on the forum for any non-start issue, including petrols. As the sensor collects ferrous particles over time, the signal to the ECU can become weak/erratic. A quick clean may solve your problem.
The sensor is located in the top of the bell housing.

Clean the EGR and intake pipe.

Another commonly recommended course of action is to clean the EGR and the inlet pipe, at the back of the engine. They can clog up and cause running issues. An ill-functioning EGR will likely (but not always) throw a DTC.

Are your glow plugs working properly?

Your engine prefers working glow plugs in order to start. The injection pressures in a DI diesel are usually enough to start the engine without glow plug assistance in all but the coldest climes, but having the plugs working properly certainly helps.
Using your multimeter, measure the resistance between the upper wiring contact and the glow plug body. You can do this in situ to save breaking out the socket set and potentially snapping a plug off in the head. Each plug should have a resistance of 0.6 ohms (Haynes, 2010).

*Check the inherent resistance in your multimeter leads before this test, then remove this number from the indicated glow plug resistance to get their true resistance!*

This is a good video of how to test your glow plugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Po_1pNHE1Y
Yes, it's for a D5 engine but the principle is the same.

Have you got a voltage supply to your glow plugs?

Put the multimeter back to VDC and check that the glow plug supply wire is receiving voltage when the ignition is switched on. It should maintain a voltage for several seconds after the glow plug light has extinguised, too.

Carry out a leak off test.

If your injectors leak back too much fuel they will rob the rail of pressure and the car will struggle to start (if at all). This is a known mode of failure for DI diesel engines, especially ones using a common rail.
You will need 4 lengths of tubing to attach to the return line output of each injector and 4 bottles for each to drip their fuel into. This equipment can be bought for very little cost. I've used tubing from a DIY store and drinks bottles with holes cut in the caps before to run this test and it has worked perfectly.
The return lines are under no pressure so you won't cut a limb off with high pressure spray, don't worry.

Start the engine (use Easy Start if you have to) and allow it to idle for a few minutes, max. The permissible fuel leak back differs between manufacturers but if one (or more) of your bottles looks like this, you have a failed injector:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaqx9ATOg3A
The other three injectors in that video are leaking back agreeable amounts and are fine.

Enjoy that video? I thought so. Here's another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9pTdgxk20Y
After idling for ~1 minute, that guy has very little fuel in each cup. Did you notice how quickly and easily the engine started at the beginning? That was not a coincidence.

You are looking for consistancy here, not necessarily outright volumes. Searching Google and Youtube for 'Leak off test' should furnish you with all the information and examples you need to carry out this quick, easy, cheap and illuminating test.

If one or more of your injectors fail this test, they require refurbishment (specialist) or replacement. You can buy new or take a punt on a used one from a known-good engine. New or used, it'll likely require coding to your ECU. This can be done in CAN Clip or DDT2000, I believe. A suitably equipped garage or the main dealer can, of course, also do this.



That's the quick, basic list done.
Other faults can and will stop your car from starting, the above are just some common examples for the 1.5 dCi.

I've written all of this in relation to my 2003 Clio dCi 65 engine. I'm sure many are the same/similar but care should be taken with considerably different units (much newer, higher power output etc.) to ensure correct procedure and data.

If there are any Renault-specific glaring errors with any of the above or if you would like to add some more points for owners to check, chime in by all means.

:)
 
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#32 ·
Ok. Vad jag menar är att min systerson har varit i kontakt med Renault. Dom säger att han måste ta bort baksätet när batteriet har ****at fungera. Måste ta bort baksätet eftersom det går inbyggda kablar från batteriet till baksätets spiralet innanför tyget. Batteriet går inte att öppna med slägga eller hammare, därför måste baksätet tas bort.

Är det verkligen så med franska bilar?
 
#33 ·
According to Google Translate
Ok. What I mean is that my sister's son has been in contact with Renault. They say he has to remove the back seat when the battery has **** to work. Must remove the rear seat as there are built-in cables from the battery to the rear seat coil inside the fabric. The battery can not be opened with a hammer or hammer, so the rear seat must be removed.

Is that true with French cars?
Sorry but I am still lost.
What model Renault ?
Generally to remove the main battery it is simply under the bonnet. Some things like making sure you know the radio code and how to reset windows but....

Rear sear coil ??
IS this heated seats ?
 
#34 ·
Hello again! my new starter has arrived, i've fitted it to the car, was all going well, went to turn the key and theres no glow plug light! and a few of the other lights which like to go off after several seconds stay on, so the oil pressure light and stop light. engine will crank fine however it won't fire. its not the imob since the light on the dash would be on crack, and surely it can't be the glow plugs since they where fine before hand, i'll swap a relay and test the glow plugs and failing that i'll have to clean the TDC sensor (as much as i don't want to since its just as inconvenient to get to as the starter!) and failing that what should i do? or has anybody got any ideas on what it could be? even tried priming the fuel filter like but it was already primed. I did notice though when i had to get the starter out, i had to move the coolant res and it litrally was bone dry! so is there a coolant sensor on these that will prevent it from starting? i presume the same for oil since it also likes to leak that too! failing everything i think i might just have a mad rage and hit it with a hammer, so far its worked with everything else on the clio ;)
 
#35 ·
Just tested the glows, 3 out of 4 fine (end one has popped! so that will explain the lack of glow plug light!) just had the TDC off and cleaned it, and on this engine its a right pain... so yeah got the end WD40 and wire brush out, end of it was black and coated in oil (seems to be the trend with this car!) put it back on and still no luck, it would seem the injectors aren't opening for whatever reason, don't know if its dropping fuel pressure in one of the injectors. can't have low oil pres since despite the leake i've just topped the oil up and the coolant! strangely though, on the key if i go straight to start it will crank over (won't fire) however if i go to 2 and hold it then go to start (like i normally would to let the plugs warm up) it won't do anything as the main start relay won't click, so mabie its ECU related? now since i'm a skint 19 year old who's nicked all of my dads tools i don't have a code reader, so i presume i'm going to have to source one of those until i go further unless theres any other diagnostics anyone can think of? much appreciated :)
 
#36 ·
Had the bonnet lid up, anything got wet,,, First thing to check, underbonnet relays, in or a the side of the fuse box, If car was ok, before the starter packing in, then go for the obvious, damp, or knocked something by the battery/fuse box area..
 
#37 ·
i've tried fiddling around with the relays. i've read quite a few different posts today with the same symptoms and it either points towards a glow plug failure or a key/ immob failure, so i've tried swapping the black relays and switching it on and off several times, with other people it seems to be a fix but not with me! i speculate its going to be something stupid that i've knocked whilst putting the starter in, however theres not that much to knock! just coolant pipes really, so i've had the TDC sensor off again, got it sitting in a bucket of de greaser... again! i would take the cam senser off however i have no idea where it is, just ordered a code reader so it will be intresting to see what it comes up with! but still no luck, i'll try again tomorow like!
 
#38 ·
What actually happened, did your starter just refuse to go one day, or?????

Glow plugs will not stop the starter spinning/cranking over ..
What will stop it is a dodgy ignition switch, thats what your symptoms are pointing to...
Are all the lights on the dash coming on, or are you having to fiddle with the key still..
 
#39 ·
Starter popped so i got a second hand one of ebay, fitted it and now it cranks over fine however it doesn't want to fire. no Glow plug light (which on these also acts as an ECU/ injector light) and the immob dot stays on a solid red, where as its supposed to extinguish after a few seconds with all the other lights. when its working fine you'd turn the key to notch 2 and all the lights on the dask would momenterilly go on then extinguish besides the oil pressure light (which usually goes off when the engines running straight away). however now the batt, oil pres, stop, serv, immob lights all stay on, yet theres no glow plug light, so i suspect its a wiring problem or a dodgey sensor. most likely something i've knocked when i've been putting the starter in. but it would seem it either appears to be an immobiliser problem or injector problem as either way the injectors aren't opening to allow the engine to fire. Ive even tried bump starting it (ran down the road pushing it with a few mates, got it up to about 10-15MPH then dumped the clutch and it still didn't wanna run!) so i'm stuck, but its most certainly an electrical fault, just i don't know what :/
 
#40 ·
Okay then, what did you have to remove from the top of the car to get at your starter,,...
Give as much info as possible, can then back track with the wiring diagram to see what sensor , relay or wire can give this issue....
 
#41 ·
air box, air feed pipe going to the turbo, air feed from turbo to EGR, EGR hot pipe, EGR its self, all its ascociated sensors. then a clamp holding down coolant hoses, then another clamp holding a load of earths on held in by 2 bolts, then finally the two long bolts holding the starter in and the starter wires. the only sensors that i had to take out where the ones ascociated with all the low pressure air intake pipes. all of which i put back again and cleaned up. could try that earth bracket thing but i made sure i cleaned up the contact area where one of the wires earths onto it.
 
#42 ·
Re check your earth wires, you will need an ohms meter, disconnect the earths off the bracket, take positive lead off your battery, with your ohms meter, one probe on negative terminal of the battery, with negative terminal still on, other end on each connector/earth.
You should have no resistance , or less than 0.1 ohms, any above this figure check.
 
#46 ·
I recently changed all the injectors on my Megane Mk II 1.5 dci; the codes were changed and 2, 3 & 4 showed the new codes, but 1, despite numerous attempts to change it keeps showing the original code for the removed injector and won't accept the new code. I have checked the numbers several times and they are correctly entered, the injector is the correct one for the vehicle and is the same type and series as the one removed. The engine does start after a few pushes of the starter button ,but it idles at 1100 revs and stays there unless you press the brake. I have tried replacing the potentiometer but this has made no difference; The fault diagnostic are two. codes for Injectors and a short on the Heater/air cooler sensor. any ideas?
 
#47 ·
Dear Renault experts...

I wonder if anyone can shed light on my 2004 (Mk2 ph3) Clio 1.5dCi 80 starting problem...

Namely, it won't. I bought the car as a non-runner, but have had experience with the K9K in a Megane, so thought logic and the workshop manuals would get me through. I also have a CLIP system to interrogate the computers.

I say the car won't start - it did *once* and idled very nicely. I thought I'd cracked it but after 0.2 miles of very gentle driving, had some increasing diesel knock until the car stalled and has not re-started since. The car will run (for a couple of seconds) after a squirt of Easy Start, and if short bursts of ES are squirted near the intake every second, the engine runs fine (using the ES as fuel) - as soon as you stop squirting, the engine stops.

I have verified the basics:
Battery good (been on a starter/charger anyway so plenty of juice) - cranking rpm over 200/min
Timing correct (checked with a screwdriver in no1 glow plug hole - bell housing end - for TDC) all the timing belt marks line up, with crank at 12 o'clock, cam and fuel pump marks align with the white marks on the cam belt
Intake has a new air filter and no obstructions
EGR is brand new
Intake area and pipe are cleaned
Has 4 reconditioned injectors (from PF Jones - a reputable refurber) and coded into the computer
New Delphi fuel filter (no metal particles in the old one)
There is diesel in the tank
TDC and cam position sensors new OEM
Wiring looks physically good and no multiplex errors from the computer
Main multiconnectors removed from ECU and re-plugged in (no chafing on cover)
All connectors cleaned, electrical contact cleaner and firmly re-connected
Compression checked, good and consistent (around 21-23bar in all cylinders on cranking)
Immobiliser NOT active (key recognised, light goes out, cranks OK - CLIP agrees)
New Delphi IMV
New Delphi rail pressure sensor
Pumping the priming bulb swishes fuel from the tank, to filter then back down the return pipe

On cranking (with an injector connected, but outside the engine in the engine bay (yes I did stand well back, goggles etc.) there is NO injection happening - no fuel comes from the nozzle


I have one code from CLIP: DF137 rail pressure regulation function 1.DEF (=pressure < minimum)

However, on cranking I can see parameter PR216 rail pressure setting 448 bar, and parameter PR217 rail pressure, where I can get up to 1500 bar.

Not having the logic diagram for the Delphi injection system, I don't know why the computer is giving me a level 2 error (STOP and the glow plug light illuminated) with DF137 low rail pressure, when the sensor says 1500 bar which should be more than enough!! Clearly the injection computer isn't happy with something and is inhibiting starting.

These diesels are supposed to be simple - air in...compression...squirt fuel...exhaust! So why won't this b*stard start?! The only component I haven't changed is the high pressure fuel pump, but with a rail pressure of 1500 bar surely it can't be that? But then why is the computer saying pressure below minimum? I suppose there *could* be a problem between the LP and HP part of the HP pump internally. Does anyone know what their rail pressure is on cranking? Anyone else had this scenario? I am determined to beat this car into submission!

Thanks for reading guys and girls...

Fletch
 
#49 ·
How long are you spraying easy start for..
It wont be a few squirts and away you go, could take at least half a can..
Keep it running with Easystart, so the injectors start to open...

Spray into the turbo mouth,

ignore Red Herrings like fuel rail pressure, you wont have enough pressure for The ECM to interpret it..


You have managed to get the car to accept all codes for injectors, Number 1 being closest to the Gearbox,, just asking...

Have you checked the codes now stored in the ECM matches the codes on the Injectors..
issue= Not getting any Reading this AAAAAA ..


Old engines did start easier, but with modern diesels, its a 1/3rd of the diesel being sprayed in...

Have you done a full global scan, got any faults in anything along the Multiplex line, stopping start,,
 
#50 ·
Thanks for your reply. I***8217;ve been through 1 ½ cans of easystart during the troubleshooting :( All injectors are coded in, and the codes verified. Even tried bump starting it - all no-go. By all accounts it should start, but there is clearly no fuel getting injected.

Connections to the injectors are good (I get a code if they are disconnected, which resolves when plugged back in.

No errors on any other modules, all fuses removed, checked, cleaned and replaced. All relays removed, tested and reinstalled.

***55357;***56877;***55357;***56877;

Regards,
Fletch
 
#52 ·
Rail pressure rises rapidly to well over 600 bar in 2 seconds of cranking, and after about 5 seconds of cranking it is over 1000 bar.

The code I get is DF137 (code present, which triggers the ***8220;stop***8221; and flashing glow plug light) 1.DEF. That is what is inhibiting the injection, but I don***8217;t understand *why* that code is coming up when the pressure seems OK.

I need to understand which sensors are being read by the injection computer that are bringing this up, as it isn***8217;t the rail pressure sensor as I have replaced that, and it***8217;s giving identical numbers to the old one.


Regards,
Fletch
 
#53 ·
Pull the IMV plug off, see if fuel will now come through your injectors.
My own experience on these engines is ALWAYS rocker box cover off, and check timing off cam lobes,,
Are you sure about 200 rpm being in tolerance for starting parameters to be met..
Could be, as no info to hand to verify. assuming you have as you seem happy with it
What is your Engine code, or Vehicle type code..
Deffo no issues with fuel from tank, to pump..
Have on many occasions bypassed fuel filter housings. and had a can of fuel under the bonnet with a primer going from this to the pump..
Just so I can say for certain its the high pressure side...
 
#55 ·
The lady selling it didn***8217;t know why it wouldn***8217;t start. Not much investigation done by her judging by the number of rusted nuts that wouldn***8217;t have been if someone had been fiddling. The car passed its MOT in September 2017 (bought in November 2017 - haven***8217;t had much time to tinker).

Pulling off the IMV plug of course generates a level 2 ***8220;STOP***8221; error immediately, so I would be surprised if the engine would start in this condition even if it was ok. However cranking like that didn***8217;t allow it to start.

Connecting a clear pipe with a supply of diesel direct to the fuel pump input didn***8217;t allow it to start either, so no blockage in the (brand new, Delphi brand) fuel filter or one- way in-line check valve.

Car is a BB08 Clio II. I believe the engine is a K9K 702 but the plate is so rusty and crud- covered it***8217;s hard to read. Anyway it***8217;s the 80hp version without the variable geometry turbo.

At the end of the day I have a level 2 error ***8220;STOP***8221; after 2-3 seconds cranking (with a battery starter booster attached, so spins over quickly) with DF137 rail pressure regulation function error 1.DEF pressure < minimum. Air can get in and out of the engine. Timing is OK. Cam and crank sensors are new and there are no coherence faults. Just no fuel.

Does anyone have experience of this situation and can explain why I have a rail pressure reading (if I keep cranking) of over 1000 bar but the above computer error.

Next step I guess would be to swap out the HP fuel pump, but I hate swapping parts if I don***8217;t understand *why*.

Bw
Fletch
 
#56 ·
Think you have missed what we are saying..
With the Metering valve disconnected, on cranking you should have fuel to do a leak of check, so on that same understanding you should have fuel coming from the injection pump.. Not expecting it to start..
You WILL not get a cam to crank coherence on a non running 1.5 dci engine as the cam sensor runs/picks up off the fuel injection pump..
Why its called a cam sensor on the 1.5 is beyond me as its a Vehicle speed sensor for the ECU to work out how much fuel to pump into the fuel rail..

Faster the engine more fuel..

Would still take that rocker cover off and check... OR HAVE you done this..
It is a K9K702..

What other fault codes were there

Another question, is it diesel in the tank???
 
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