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2002 Laguna 1.8 stv. Engine sounds like a diesel engine

15K views 19 replies 5 participants last post by  Koollife 
#1 ·
Hi,

Does anyone know what is going on with my engine?
It rackles like a dieselengine or worse.

When it starts it sounds nice, humming, for about 5 min. then it sounds like a diesel engine. Then engine has 210 000km. Any suggestions on what to do?
 
#2 ·
Hi
you may have a De-Phaser Pulley fitted.
if it or the DePhaser Solenoid has failed then the car WILL sound like a clacky deisel.
the pulley is hidden under the top of the left engine mount on the top of the engine, the sensor should be just between the enginemount and the leftmost (no,4) cylinder (near the yellow oil filler cap).

its pretty much a garage job to replace as you will probably need a new timing belt kit fitted at the same time (to minimise garage costs, cheaper to do the whole lot in one go).
At 210km/131k miles its pretty much due for a 75/150/225k mile timing belt service anyway, check you service logbook, it might be worth biting the bullet and getting it all done early.

what engine have you got?
is it a F4R-760 , 1.8L 16V
 
#3 ·
Hi
you may have a De-Phaser Pulley fitted.
if it or the DePhaser Solenoid has failed then the car WILL sound like a clacky deisel.
the pulley is hidden under the top of the left engine mount on the top of the engine, the sensor should be just between the enginemount and the leftmost (no,4) cylinder (near the yellow oil filler cap).

its pretty much a garage job to replace as you will probably need a new timing belt kit fitted at the same time (to minimise garage costs, cheaper to do the whole lot in one go).
At 210km/131k miles its pretty much due for a 75/150/225k mile timing belt service anyway, check you service logbook, it might be worth biting the bullet and getting it all done early.

what engine have you got?
is it a F4R-760 , 1.8L 16V
Thank you for a well thought through answer. I had no idea. Hoping that you are right, and it is not a mechanical fault. But would it not show on the diagnostic?

And why would the engine not start "the noise" before it is warm? (not knowing what the solenoid is doing :)

My engine is a F4P (according to the instructionbook), I tried to look for the ID on the engine but found nothing. Thinking the corrosion may have taken it.

OA
 
#4 · (Edited)
Sorry my bad typo, yes F3P-760 is 1.8L-16V (F4R- is 2L-16v version)

the usual issue is it starts up sounding like a diesel as the dephaser is hydralicaly operated and depends on oil pressure to operate. the noise then clears once oil pressure is up to correct levels after a few seconds to minutes if on the way out, but if the pulley is faulty/failed it will feel held back on adjusting the timing slightly and still clack a lot, solinoild issues could be its ok then starts being clacky after a while.

im not an expert on these engines so am unsure if it is pulley or soliniod issue with yours.
(contact your local dealership and ask for parts dept, they should be able to tell you what you have and if you have a dephaser pulley system fitted on your engine.)
i did a quick google and it seems there are renault 1.8-16v-vvt engines out there and it is not an uncommon issue. (de-phaser pulley being the most commonly failed component of the two)

there are some good threads on this site relating to 1.6vvt dephaser pulley issues and a very good czech web link HERE with pics on a recent one, that show how the dephaser system works. (google web page transliteration link is there as well) its well worth having a look.

the biggest problem encountered with diagosting such issues is that they will not easily show up on any diagnostics equipement as its all mechanical timing related, any timing sensors will all report that ecu is happy with timing as it cannot see anything wrong.
if you could measure spark plug timing and tdc readings as well as ecu feedback and emmisions you might be able to see if the dephaser variable timing bits are all operating correctly, dont hold your breath expecting a dealership to get it right though.

It would be a good idea to check you have the dephaser hardware fitted, along with reviewing your service history to see if its worth changing the oil+filter, it should really be done every 6-9k miles. Then is your still having the issues look to get a spare solinoid from a breakers yard.

This will save a lot of your cash which could be wasted by most dealerships (on thier swap bits (with your cash) till they finanlly fix the faulty bit) fault fixing method.

check this very good link with awsome powerpoint doc: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62635
and this one on diagosing the fault: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58118
 
#5 ·
Sorry my bad typo, yes F3P-760 is 1.8L-16V (F4R- is 2L-16v version)

the usual issue is it starts up sounding like a diesel as the dephaser is hydralicaly operated and depends on oil pressure to operate. the noise then clears once oil pressure is up to correct levels after a few seconds to minutes if on the way out, but if the pulley is faulty/failed it will feel held back on adjusting the timing slightly and still clack a lot, solinoild issues could be its ok then starts being clacky after a while.

im not an expert on these engines so am unsure if it is pulley or soliniod issue with yours.
Thank you for useful links.
But would not a dislockated timing making it sound like a diesel all the time? (and not only when the engine is warm)

In the last few days, the enging also give a nasty noise if I ex. drive in 30km/h in third gear and use throttle.

A "friend" of mine has a old mercedes with the same symptoms and sounds, he is going to change the valve lifters (the same as rocker arms?), sure of his problems.
Could this be a alternative solution for me?

I should mention that diagnostic has detected a faulty TPC, (having a idle problem and limp mode) got the throttle housing and are going to change it soon.

Yesterday I also noticed that there was some oil around the protective cover of the inlet manifold. It was dark so I need to take another look today in daylight.

If changing the solenoid is easy and rather cheap, I would prefer to make this change first.
 
#8 ·
I am somewhat confused, if to believe that I have 2 different faults. One that causes the dieselengine-sound (most likly the pulley), and two a defect TPC causing the engine to go into limp mode (iregular idling etc).

Feeling unsecure about if the pulley and variable timing also causes a tpc fault. But if I remember right, I had limp mode and warningssingnals long (about a year) before the engine sounded like a diesel.

I live in norway, and this repair seems expensive. Maybe I need to go to sweden or germany with the car to get i done. Overall with travel-expenses it is very much the same price i guess, but I get a "free" vacation as well for the same amount.
 
#9 ·
the TPC may only need a good clean.

yes i would keep them seperate, get the timing kit+water pump+dephaser pulley+oil change sorted first, also look at replacing timing sensors on the crankshaft+camshaft.
then clean the Throttle Body.

then see how it is running it should run a lot quieter and hopefully occurances of limp mode should be eliminated.

if you have the right tools you could do it yourself (timing belt and dephaser pulley)
 
#10 ·
I have cleaned the old throttle-housing two times, but nothing. So I bought a new one for 412£ here in norway (you can get it for 290euro from Eugen Trost GmbH & Co.KG, Bötzinger Straße 6, 79111 Freiburg (D))

Yup, understand that it will be cheaper/easier to change all the these parts at the same time, knowing it need to be changed, and maybe sometime soon. It make sense ...pero el dinero:)

What tools do I need to get the job done?

I have a question, what is the dephaser(vvt) pulley? I have my Haynes and it says nothing about where to find the dephaser pulley, is it the same as the camshaft pulley?
 
#14 ·
Thanks, once again.

I checked the rpm and engine again today, and it makes a lot of noise from 800-1200 rpm, but seems normal at higher rpm.
I need to ask, if I have a oil leak, could this cause a lack of pressure and make it "misfire" and make the diesel sound when it runs with low rpm?
 
#15 ·
no.
low speed rattle is dephaser pulley - internal pulley oil seal failure.
if you also have found a oil leak then that will not help, how much are you loosing?
dont use cheap-nasty oil when changing it, use what is spec'd in the use manual as minumum quality level.
 
#16 ·
Oaky, just wanna be sure. Dont know where the oil leak comes from, havent had time to figure it out. Have to dismount some stuff, or clean the engine and try to locate it. Did it once and got a lot of problems with water where the coil sits. Any tips on how to clean the engine without having that problem?

Maybe it is from when the renault garage refilled, but I doubt it. I was 3 litre short, do you believe that? and I was thinking... how is it possible. What happend to the oil-lamp. Anyway, got to messure the level more often.

All the orginal parts for the job, here in norway, is about 850£, so I called Sweden and waiting for a better offer.

Thank you for good responses. I will report back.
 
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