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Renault Clio 2010 Severe Subframe Corrosion

33K views 41 replies 15 participants last post by  Phil48 
#1 ·
Hi All

I am looking for some advice on severe corrosion on the subframe of my 2010 Renault Clio. This was brought to my attention by my local Renault main dealer a few weeks ago. Attached are two images displaying two different locations on the subframe - as you see, it is corroded all over and has rusted through in these two places. My sump also has bad corrosion but I have not attached an image.

Both my dealer and Renault Customer Care argue that this is somehow not covered under the 12-year anti-corrosion warranty - I don't see how this could be and I think it is absolutely unacceptable that a 6-year old car should have such advanced corrosion. Note: I do not live anywhere near the sea (not that this should void the warranty anyway in my opinion). To me, this is a clear fault by virtue of the fact that it has happened so soon: either moisture is gathering, inferior material has been used, or the car was sitting out at the docks for a long period prior to me buying it "new".

I have had the car serviced annually by a Renault main dealer (from new) where, supposedly, they check for corrosion and are now claiming that (according to their records) there was no corrosion recorded previous years so that this corrosion must have happened in the space of one year!! To me, this is crazy. It is shocking enough that the corrosion is so advanced after 6 years but to claim that this can happen in 1 year is ridiculous. Note: over the last 6 years I have lived and worked in the same areas with no alteration to my environment whatsoever (I have about a 30min commute every day to my workplace).

Also, my dealer has seen some cases of this recently in cars of the same age as mine - so why Renault are not taking this more seriously I have no idea. My impression is that they are trying to avoid a recall. But this is a very serious issue since it is structural corrosion which compromises the safety of the car! Even worse, since the subframe is hidden behind a plastic undertray, this corrosion does not even get picked up by the MOT (or NCT as it is here in Ireland) which my car passed 6 months ago!

I have gotten nowhere with my dealer or Renault so far (albeit an offer of 20% off the cost of replacing the subframe and sump) and I am wondering what you would suggest I do?

I would also like to get your thoughts on the overall situation.

Thank you very much in advance
Kevin
 

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#2 ·
Go through the T&Cs of the corrosion warrantee and get Renault Customer Services to specify exactly which clause they are relying on to refuse any claim.

AFAIK, as long as vehicle has been checked as required by dealers and not caused by external damage they should be covering.

For what it is worth, that level of corrosion does not occur in one year.
Which makes you wander what/if the dealer was checking.
 
#3 ·
Even worse, since the subframe is hidden behind a plastic undertray, this corrosion does not even get picked up
I reckon you've just found that the Dealership doing the checks didn't bother removing the undertray for all those years either, same as the MOT testers can't see it without removal.
 
#4 ·
Irish Renault dealers IMO are unhelpful, patronising rude and unhelpful. We don't have the sale of goods act in the same way they have it in the UK. How much is the repair? I'd get a written quote from my local dealer and go to Renault Ireland with it, pointing out there is an anti corrosion warranty and a small claims court that will only cost you about a score. You could also contact SIMI they’re supposed to enforce "standards"
 
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#5 ·
Years back, I would not have been surprised to see that level of corrosion on typical 70s motors.
Poor protection, thin steel, no protective plating (zinc et al) and poor primer/paint.

We have a motor here which has an under tray so should be no direct damage to paint from stones, salt etc.
Paint and steel technology have moved on far beyond what we would have expected back then.
There is no paint left in the pictures we can see.
WTF happened to it?
And more importantly, with regard to warrantee, WTF could the average motorist (or even a total idiot) have done to cause this?
 
#6 ·
Thank you very much all for your useful comments.

Dancingdad - that is a good point about asking them specifically what clause they are using to get out. Initially they had said that it only covers "corrosion from within" and that since the subframe has corroded from the outside in, that it is not covered. I then argued that the "from within" point really applies to bodywork corroding from behind paintwork which has not resulted from external damage. Essentially they were trying to say that the beam of metal comprising the subframe could somehow rust from within its centre outwards. This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard! They then changed their argument to simply saying its not a manufacturing defect when, I believe, that by virtue of its occurrence, it is a defect. I do not see the purpose of a 12-year warranty if they do not honour it!

Renoir White - yes you are probably right that they have not done the check correctly. Or were perhaps just waiting for it to get so bad that the only thing to do was replace it - rather than trying to prevent.

Doctle Odd - I have found the dealer and Renault Customer Care to be quite unhelpful. In fact, customer care didn't really deal with it at all. I had thought they would carry out a separate line of enquiry (or simply just say it is covered under the warranty!) but, instead, they basically just contacted the dealer, took the dealer's opinion as gospel and rang me back rehashing what the dealer had said. The repair itself is quoted at €700. Contacting the small claims court is a good idea and something I had thought about. I did not know about SIMI but that looks like a great option - thank you. To be honest, I had hoped (after a few weeks of arguing) they would come around and just look after my case properly after their fobbing me off didn't work. So I was giving them a chance before I escalated it to the law or the media. But it is now looking like this is all that is left.

Dancingdad again :) - I wonder was my subframe ever even painted in a protective paint! Also, as you rightly point out, what could I possibly do to cause this?? Something is off here but they won't admit it. It is so obvious to everybody I have discussed this with apart from Renault. I'm sure they know but are playing me for a fool - which is a horrible way to treat a loyal customer.
 
#7 ·
Initially they had said that it only covers "corrosion from within" and that since the subframe has corroded from the outside in, that it is not covered.
So.
They send out a car with no paint on it and they would not honour the warrantee as it has corroded from the outside ?

Dunno if you have or not but this needs to be in writing.
To dealers and to Renault customer services.
If dealer is part of a franchise group, to head office as well. Preferably to the managing director.
 
#8 ·
I was on the phone to Renault customer services a few times - basically this lady kept ringing me to ask if I would accept the discount they were offering. I then sent a long email to customer.services@renault.co.uk along with pictures (covering similar things to the content of the discussion on this forum). But this goes to the same person I was talking to on the phone. I have not heard from her since - that was a week ago. Prior to me sending that email, she was ringing me every few days. It really is pathetic.

But perhaps I need to try to get it to the top as you suggest. It can be hard to get contact information for these people though. They're too busy hiding behind people at reception desks and answering phones who have no authority to talk about mechanics, chemistry or the law.

I rang another dealer today to get a second opinion. The guy I was talking to (in charge of parts) was quite shocked at this and had not seen it before. He was helpful and said he would look into it with Renault. A possible issue that may arise is that Renault Customer Services will already have my case on record and could consider it "resolved". Hopefully that does not happen though and this other dealer will argue that it is a defect. This is up in the air at the moment though. I have no idea how it will turn out.
 
#9 ·
Read your warranty and you will find it is for the "Body" of the car and not subframe etc BUT here in the UK sale of goods act quotes a product must be fit for purpose fo a reasonable period of time!!! Now in my opinion I would say for a structural part that is not a reasonable period of time
 
#10 ·
Hi


this level of corrosion on a 5/6 year old car is not acceptable !


I suggest you write to the CEO and ask him to 'personally' look into this


http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-8980


please let us know how you get on , as unfortunately I'm sure your not going to be only owner with this problem
best of luck


Alan
 
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#11 ·
Part of the OP's difficulty is that this is Ireland and if the sale of goods legislation was any weaker it would be a fortnight. We have ombudsmen for everything but IMO they usually take the side of government/big business/professional classes (Yes this is the Republic with lower classes, working classes etc)! Arbitration in usually very impartial in the small claims court and I think it costs about €12.00 up to €1250.00 claim. I had the Megane front subframe off several times, I thought it was dipped or galvanised it was pretty solid for a 13 year old part
 
#16 ·
Doctle Odd - if I do go down the small claims court route, who exactly do I make the claim against? The dealer or Renault - or both?
Never realised the warranty was as comprehensive.. I would assume it would be Renault as it is their warranty although the contract of sale is with the dealer but would seek advice from local trading standards
 
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#17 ·
"Or protective product application defect..."

Acknowledged by the manufacturer can mean, Renault, the car maker or Paint maker or original steel maker as I would assume that the steel would have its own protection, something like Terne Coat.
And simply mean that they only need to acknowledge corrosion for one of the stated reasons.

In UK courts would, these days, be taken to be an unfair term and ignored, warrantee cannot be dependent upon the whim of the supplier of the warrantee.
 
#19 ·
I'd say you have a claim against the dealer as you bought the car off them. You don't need to contact Samsung for example when your new TV dies your contract is with the seller. Generally speaking you cannot have onerous T&C in a guarantee eg your raincoat is only waterproof if you wear it on sunny days. Fair usage wouldn't apply as it carries a 12 year warranty and was "inspected" by a qualified person at least 6 times.
 
#21 ·
Another take on the meaning of the warrantee clause.

Took this from Renault T&C for vehicles registered after 2012 and it seems the wording have changed slightly.
Scope of the Anti-Corrosion Warranty RENAULT guarantees only the bodywork and sub-frame of all RENAULT vehicles against perforation originating from the interior of the Vehicle where the corrosion is due to a manufacturing or material fault or a problem concerning application of anti-corrosion products to Vehicle metalwork (“Protection Products”) by RENAULT or a RENAULT Network Member.
To me, what they are trying to say is that if the outside of the vehicle is damaged and this leads to corrosion, that isn't covered.
Sensible I suppose given people trying to claim for stone chips.

But I also reckon that if a part corrodes that is inside the vehicle and not readily or normally accessible that falls within "originating from the inside..."

Did someone mention Undertray?
To me, that puts the subframe inside the vehicle.

https://www.cdn.renault.com/content...s/Other/renault_terms_and_conditions_2016.pdf
 
#22 ·
Thank you very much all for you help.

Did someone mention Undertray?
To me, that puts the subframe inside the vehicle.
I agree with this - and, in fact, I used this argument weeks ago but to no avail. They are just not willing to listen to any sensible argument.

Today I managed to get in touch with one of the top Renault Ireland guys. He was going to contact the dealer and will get back to me on Tuesday (bank holiday on Monday). We'll see how that works out.. I am hopeful but at the same time I didn't get far myself with the dealer or customer care. So I am worried that I'll just get the same things rehashed again. However, I remain hopeful because I would much prefer if Renault can sort this out without the hassle of me going through the legal system - although that is the next step if this does not work out.

I don't see why this should be so difficult.. 12-year anti-corrosion warranty. Corrosion on structural component at 6 years. Annual inspections... battle to get it covered?? It is shocking. And it is not so much the cost, it is the injustice of it.
 
#23 ·
Well at least you have managed to get someone further up the tree.
Hopefully, that someone will be more amenable to sense then the minions below.

I am still of the opinion that this is down to dealer rubberstamping corrosion inspection without actually doing any. And now will not back down as this would leave them in bad light.

Got to say that many of the stories we hear regarding Renault Customer Services put them in quite a good light.
Yours is the exception.
 
#24 ·
Hi - my 17 year old son bought a 2011 Clio Dynamique Tom Tom 1.2 16v from Perrys Huddersfield in Feb 2017 before he passed his test and we stored in my garage and used for about 400 miles of learner driving. They gave it a full MOT and service when we bought it and confirmed no accidents HPI clear etc. He passed his test in December and now the car has done 44k miles and had 43k when we bought it. The brakes ceased up and needed new pads and discs probably due to sitting there unused for almost a year so took to an independent mechanic this weekend and he found the whol front subframe under the radiator had rusted severely and his screwdriver went through in several areas. He said the undertray covered the worst damage but it was apparent before he took this off. Do I have a leg to stand on with the Vauxhall dealer as this has definitely not happened in my garage over the past 11 months. I see Renault UK won't honour 12 year anti corrosion warranties or do I stand a chance? Also if I buy a second hand one which seem to be between £50-£100 how long does it take to change? Thanks and apologies if covered before. We have 4 sons and they all have Clios aged from 2004 to 2011 and this being the newest and no such problems on the mk1 or mk2 versions. Any advice helpful - thanks
 
#25 ·
343JI
Never assume.
Get back to dealers and inform them of the issue and likelihood that given the mileage, they sold you a duff motor and what are they going to do about it.
Sale of Goods Act applies (but is iffy after 11 months)
Make sure you have put it in writing.

Renault body work warrantee will only count if all dealer stamps are in place as needed in the service history.
If they are, they are liable, even if they say not.

And yes, it could have occurred simply by sitting in a garage but don't tell them that.
 
#26 ·
its the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which he can use now as that gives you a 6 year window in which to complain, if you have owned the goods for 6 months or more and discover it is not fit for purpose:

Six months or more

If a fault develops after the first six months, the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery.
In practice, this may require some form of expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range.
Find out more about how to return a faulty item and claim a refund, repair or replacement from a retailer.
You have six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and five years in Scotland.
This doesn't mean that a product has to last six years - just that you have this length of time in which to make a claim if a retailer refuses to repair or replace a faulty product.
which! will write you a letter to help you get things started

Which Faulty Goods Letter

I hope you get it sorted :smile2:
 
#27 ·
Goi g to be honest here with you ...don’t think you have. A leg to stand on ..car has now been in your hands for nearly a year and corrosion could be severe in that time if the atmosphere is right ...best bet is to hope dealer looks at it sympathetic and contributes to cost of repair
 
#31 ·
My resolution was to sell my clio 3 back to renault by way of a part ex..was shocked to find how much rust was on the radiator support panel on my clio 3 back then..as said the under tray covers it up and even an MOT doesn't expose it because of the tray..very bad I think..glad my latest purchase hasn't got an under tray..:smile2:
 
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