Independent Renault Forums banner

CLIO UCH controlchip *** Fixed ***

75K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  Ivan P 
#1 ·
can anyone help out on identifying what the Sagem E34707A chip is inside the UCH on a 2002 clio sport.
ive an indicator problem. being fluent at component level repair, all other associated ic's relevent to the indicators have been identified. There seems to be nothing on the web about this chip and no datasheets.

It would appear the stalk switches run into this ic which feeds the main controller which in turn feeds a smart driver to run the bulbs.

Any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks
John
 
#3 ·
Hi Dancingdad, thanks for your reply. Iam at this level now because Renault would charge over £500 for a new coded UCH which I don't intend spending. There also seems to be very few companies out there who will repair these and do a proper job. Ive seen some really shoddy work by wanabee engineers in my time and I just don't trust anyone anymore. Hence tackling it myself. Plus I enjoy it, I live electronics. A few hours this afternoon and ive figured out all the wiring to and from the UCH down to the pins, and the chips involved with the issue. The net is closing in for this bugger of a problem. It wont hide forever.
Oh iam not the JO you thought of but hi anyway
 
#4 ·
Fair does.
Just making sure you weren't chasing your tail for a faulty switch but sounds like you know what you're up to.
Wish I could help with specifics but above me at that level.
Good luck, hope you sort it.
We wouldn't mind some photos and explanations BTW, others may benefit.
 
#5 ·
Hi JO, how's your French? When I had a problem, I found "les amies du Diag" website, had to waffle in schoolboy frog for 5 posts to unlock the link. I feel you'll probably find more info where Sagem are. Maybe that chip number is not what chip actually is underneath. The Russians, Poles & other Eastern Bloc countries are VERY good at reverse engineering too. Have a look on those Renault sites, you'll be amazed at the info, some of which isn't allowed on here DAMHIK.
Good luck, I envy your skill, Done SM Tech, but don't have the access to kit now.
 
#6 ·
You're right lots of hits on the net for E34707A but I can't find out ANY technical information for it or even what it does.

HOWEVER eventually it's come up 3 times as 'transponder chip' so I've just had a 'splash' moment (that is, fallen in), that I think it codes the module to the ECU. Wouldn't be for the ignition key?

If that's it then that's probably why Renault want £500 for a new module, which will have to be coded to the ECU.

The first idea I had was it might be one of those programmable logic chips, and would be set up specifically for what Renault want it to do, which they will keep secret, so you'd still be screwed.

I think Renault have got you by the wotsits
 
#8 ·
Brilliant write up JohnOakley.

Do you happen to know what components are responsible for the drivers electric window?
I'm having the drivers window randomly open and close and clicking relay noise from the uch. it would be great if I can repair it with replacing a few capacitors.
 
#9 ·
Hi Craig
on pic4 ive arrowed the small relay which from what I can gather is the drivers side window relay. This may differ on some boards but were the same on both the boards I had. I never had window problems but I have read and seen info on this relay being the drivers window relay. This is prob what you can hear clicking away.


From my checks, all the switches came in on the square black connector with the capacitors underneath. With not having window issues I didn't trace back what actually drives the relay but I suspect there would just be some fet drivers fed from the micro.


From my experience I would suggest removing the black connector and replacing the caps first. Its cheap and usually solves most problems. The passive components usually fail first. If this still causes problems then I would be inclined to dig deeper. Also check you have no water damage as some boards are prone to this from leaks.


You may find different style caps depending on your version of the board, check before you buy any to avoid wasted cost although they are only pennies.


Hope this helps. Interested to see how you get on.


John
 
#11 ·
Thanks for that JohnOakley.

Yes I've had the board under microscope and no signs of liquid damage or blown components, but I was in a rush as I needed the car so didn't have time to get under the connector.
My clicking noise seems to be coming from the relay on its own under the middle white connector that is not ladled on your picture.
Ill have a closer look and a test around over the next week. Hopefully it is just one of the decoupling capacitors.
 
#12 ·
Think although this is above the skills of most of us on here it does explain a lot and is one of the most comprehensive posts on here explaining in great detail the procedures ..hats of to you ..hope mod move this on to a sticky
 
#16 ·
Heres some pictures Dancingdad. 2 pictures have the eprom removed and the other is with it soldered back in. its the black chip with 8 legs.

This holds the codes for your immobiliser and keys so what I done was while at the scrap yard I tested the board in the car, you can test the electrics but you wont be able to start the car.

The new board I have came out of an 03 plate clio and while they both are uhc-n3 the boards have a lot of differences, but everything seems to be working ok.
 

Attachments

#17 ·
Nice result Craig, I have a spare board which is slightly different just for fault finding initially. It didn't like the eeprom change due to this but I expected it to go mad. Just tried it out of interest.

Your right, the boards must be the same to do this Tackle the caps next, it would be great to confirm if they were the problem.

Great job
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
I also encountered the UCH problems. The car was a 2003 Renault Clio with a UCH-N3.

Intermittently the following faults were appearing: knocking relays, wipers not working, lights not working, windows not working, central locking not working, instrument cluster backlight not working, etc.. It was obvious, that it had something to do with the whole of the UCH unit not receiving power at various points in time.

The features my UCH fault presented:
1. When you first started the car, the car was intermittently in disco mode (all electricals going on and off approximately two times a second). For some seconds everything is working fine and then for some seconds the disco mode and then again back to working. This would keep on happening for a good few minutes. After some time all the faults always stopped appearing. Evidently it thus had something to do with a component on the UCH warming up and starting to work properly.
2. Tugging/pulling/twisting on the 40-pin black connector had an apparent effect on the fault. When pulling to a certain direction, the fault goes on, twisting to the other direction the fault goes away.
3. Hitting/tapping the UCH housing/case/plastic container with mild force would also randomly turn on/off the fault.

At first I was sure that the 40-pin connector was the culprit. Must be a bad contact. I removed the whole connector and substituted it with some new wire, which I soldered straight into the PCB (printed circuit board). To my surprise, this had absolutely no effect to the fault. So clearly it wasn't the 40-pin connector at all, that was causing the problems. At this point, grabbing the freshly installed set of wires and pulling/jerking/twisting them had the exact same effect as previously: fault goes on/off depending on how you twist them. What the heck? So it must be something related to the fiber glass of the PCB itself bending way or another.

At first I wanted to believe that the people on the internet know what they are talking. As in some thread there was this guy "bil_liser" saying, that ALL the UCH problems are caused by the decoupling capacitors. So I went and changed all the UCH capacitors around the 40-pin connector (although not all of them are capacitors, as you will see in the attached pictures in the end).

So, I had changed all the decoupling caps to fresh ones. Still, no effect. The fault remains exactly the same.

I did some more research on this topic online and read that BBA-Reman does a "full-rebuild" when the symptoms match what I was encountering. I don't know what a full-rebuild is but I started with trying to find out if there were replacements available for the main microprocessor. I didn't find even a datasheet for these poor buggers. So I concluded that BBA-Reman probably is not changing those either. Also, from my experience, ICs do not fail that often at all. Okay, so replacing the ICs was discarded as a solution. So what might a full-rebuild for 100 pounds be in reality? Maybe a reflow of the board in a reflow oven/gaseous phase oven. That would although require the removal of the through-hole mounted components, i.e., the 7 plastic relays on the PCB as they would melt at such extreme temperatures.

As I didn't want to detach the relays, next on the list was a re-solder of the board using a soldering iron, some flux and some new solder. The area of interest would logically be in the vicinity of the problem causing 40-pin connector. As the symptoms described in the beginning of this post (points 1...3) matched perfectly to a dry solder joint, off I went.

Before heating up the soldering iron, I used a DMM (digital multi meter) to measure some resistors. Didn't find any with a short-circuit. Then some capacitors. They also had enough resistance, no short-circuits here either. Then onto the diodes. Using a DMM in the diode mode I measured the diodes. One of the diodes seemed to give very intermittent readings. At first I wasn't getting any reading, then when I just held the measurement leads in place for a second or two the DMM would display the breakover voltage for a very short amount of time and then it again said that I am measuring an open circuit, although, I was measuring a diode. Aha! There must be something wrong with the solder joint(s) of this diode. Maybe the power to the microprocessor goes through this diode? That would explain why I was losing all the UCH related functionality whenever the fault was on.

I re-soldered all the components inside the yellow box, shown on the attached picture. Special care was given to the diode which was giving out intermittent readings. The intermittent diode is marked with a red outline in the picture. And what do u know, the UCH has been working like it came out the factory the very day.

I must give a word of warning to anyone trying to remove the black 40-pin connector from the PCB. Without using a hot-air soldering station or a suction-pump soldering station, the job was not the easiest one. First, I tried to remove the connector using solder wick. I put four hours into this and no luck. It just wasn't coming out. The next trick was to flood the pins with solder. I put a very liberate amount of solder on the pins such that I had two long rows of solder on the board covering all the 40 pins. Then I used 4 soldering irons simultaneously and gave it some good heat. Having some locking pliers/vise grips already in place around the 40-pin connector, I yanked it out when the solder turned liquid. Yay, I got the connector out without breaking the PCB. But boohoo, the connector was now a melted piece of plastic. So, I had to order a new connector from Mouser.

I am attaching some pictures, maybe these will help someone in the future when encountering similar UCH faults.

First, a picture of the temporary wiring loom I had used to figure out if the 40-pin connector was causing the UCH problems:
Cable management Electrical wiring Wire Auto part Vehicle


Next, the overall look of the board after I had re-attached the 40-pin connector. It can be noticed that the connector is sitting a little higher then originally as I inserted an "adapter block" between the connector and the PCB, might I ever need to detach it again in order to reach the SMD capacitors and such beneath it.
Circuit component Computer hardware Computer component Electronic engineering Electronics
Electronic engineering Circuit component Electronic component Electronics Computer hardware


Next, is the picture taken by andy_casey and edited by me to include my measurement data. I had to measure all the capacitors to find out their values. Also, note the red frame pinpointing the location of the intermittent diode I was talking about, above in the text.
Computer hardware Electronic component Circuit component Electronics Electronic engineering


And the looks of the PCB, after all the capacitors and MOVs were replaced with new ones:
Electronic engineering Electronic component Computer hardware Electronics Passive circuit component

Also, I had to redo the wiring loom at the car's end because, as you might recall, I had removed the original connector as the very first step of this troubleshooting process:
Wire Electrical wiring Cable Electronics Technology

No BBA-Reman for me. And more importantly, no new UCH from Renault dealer, price estimation (as installed onto the car) was from 750 to 850 euros. And from an independent car electrics specialist I got an offer of 620 euros. Yikes!

Overall, it took me nearly two months to get this baby back on track with all the time included waiting for parts from overseas.
But oh boy, what a personal victory it was when it finally started working again.

Apparently the pictures ain't quite working so I'll give it another shot.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Excellent thread and congratulations on your repairs, that really is going the extra mile, well done.

It's a shame manufacturers have resorted to such complicated electronics to flash an indicator though isn't it, what was wrong with the old way.


If you haven't seen it before take a look at Chip quik...it's excellent for component removal if you don't have a hot air station at hand.

> > > Chip Quik Video < < <


Cheers.
 
#23 ·
Yeah you can get it from Farnell.

I've used Chip quik before and it really is just like in the video.




Cheers.
 
#26 ·
Who is John? Which chip are you talking about? If you want an answer, maybe you could try to reform your question to an understandable form.
John is the original Poster. Seems he sorted it himself.
 
#27 ·
#28 ·
Hi. Does anyone know the specs (Clamping voltage and capacity for the MOVs and value for the caps) or a part number from RS or Element14 (Farnell) for these components of this type of UCH out of a 2003 Clio II 1.4 Auto? The photo below shows the area under the Black 40 Pin connector after it has been removed. We have identified all 5 pins (now numbered) that are voltage sensitive as they are working in conjunction with MOVs.
I have ordered a packet of decoupling capacitors (RS 697-3282) but I would like to change the 5 x MOVs while we are at it. There are also 5 x capacitors in parallel to each of these MOVs. Also shown in the pic. There are 2 different sizes. Can anyone help with the specs of these? Thanks.
 

Attachments

#29 ·
I would just like to add an update to this thread for people in the future ...

Like many others I had the indicator fault: it started with an occasional left indicator and ended up being a permanent right one. Also when you put the drivers window down the left indicator came on, which I later figured out was because the decoupling caps are in the same 4xcap block. I removed the casing around steering column and disconnected the indicator switch, still indicating right. Traced the wires to the multi-timer module from the Haynes manual. Worked out that the right input was sitting at 5-6 volts instead of 12 volts and assumed an input pull-up failure so decided to remove the module and take it apart, once I found the pull-up to be okay, I searched the forum and found John's post.

I have had little success in removing 40 pin connectors, so I decided to take another approach, a lower risk one and just removed the side of the plastic connector (see below) and using a cheap SMD air-hot gun that I already had, removed the offending capacitors. Replacement took just minutes. It clipped back into the car just fine using one side, so I would highly recommend this approach if you don't want to risk take the connector off.

My thanks to John Oakley for spotting the hidden capacitors and sourcing them from Farnell; I ordered some Wednesday, they arrived Friday, £8.50 for those interested.
I take my hat off to Rone for his persistence with his endeavours, absolutely amazing!

That's all ... John
 

Attachments

Top