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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 28th August 2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pat.w View Post
Not quite sure I see your point...

Yes the Japanese make the most reliable cars, it's been that way pretty much since the 70's when the Datsun Cherry first came over. Their cars are consistently the top of the reliability tables.

But if everything is so rosy for the Japanese, they are making perfect cars and they have no expense putting cars right under warranty, why were Nissan in a position to be bought out and why are there still European car manufacturers? Surely if your theory is correct and Renault were only in such a strong position because they ripped us all off with cr4p cars, for Nissan to become a viable purchase, their reliability will have to be brought down to the level of Renaults rather than Renault moving up to the level of Nissan

As I said in another thread earlier tonight, Renault are aware that they have a customer service issue and are looking at it. Personally my experience with modern Renaults has been good, having said that I now have my first Japanese car so I'm sure I'll get to see the difference first hand
so are we best to buy japanese then fo reliability anyway?
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 28th August 2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by VelSatisfied View Post
Can't agree with you there Noel.

Manufacturers & dealers make far more from servicing & repairs than from the initial purchase.

Lets face it - everyone buys a car based on its price vs their budget. They may then refine their choice taking into consideration fuel economy, road tax bracket, servicing intervals, locality of dealer, projected resale value., finance package The factors they won't look at is the prices of spares or the dealer's labour rates. Therefore, because there is no focus on this, there is no comparison, and ultimately, no reason for competition.

The customer only finds out at the service point what they need to pay.

I agree Paul most people do buy cars used or new based on price budget and maybe as a consumer we should be asking about repair costs etc.

But I can understand what Noel is saying with reagrds to buying new and changing once out of warranty as we have become a bit of a throw away society so we get rid of the old as its just as cheap to get new with all the competition thats out there and the price wars.

Its these new cars where everything is hook it up to a computer and repair what the machine says that doesn't help long gone are the days when your mechanic listens to the car takes it for a short drive to see what is wrong....
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 28th August 2008
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Car technology has moved on a long way, that's for sure. I have a couple of classics, and can quite easily be reminded of all the things we now take for granted, such as;
  1. manual chokes (remember them?)
  2. brakes without servo assistance (far less ABS)
  3. Carburettors, and setting them up to adjust the mixture
  4. service intervals greater than 6 months/ 6,000 miles
  5. grease points
  6. points-based distributors
  7. the inevitable 'Friday afternoon car'
  8. De-cokes (enough said)
Cars back then were like a blank canvas (as opposed to today's blank cheque), they had so much variation, that a good mechanic (or, a bad one) could make a world of difference - but even the best cars, couldn't honestly hold a candle to the worst you can buy today. Cars today, are set up at the factory, and the role of the dealer is to keep them that way, and that's about that.

Are they necessarily more expensive to run? Well, even just 15 years ago, a car with 100,000 miles on the clock was seen as being either scrap, or subject to a major engine rebuild. Since its not uncommon to run cars well past that point, and still be capable of good service, I'd say that things are a bit better than before. Car reliability took a step backwards with the adoption of cambelts, but apart from that, (and it'll be difficult to persuade you - what with your run of bad luck), car's are generally more reliable than they used to be.

Sidenote: what will render older cars scrap is airbag replacement (which is recommended every 15 years), and the effect of imposing retrospectively CO2-based road tax on middle-aged cars.


This job should never be complete - the day I think I've done it all, is the day I resign.

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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 28th August 2008
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Good post Paul

Manual chokes Oh yes I remember those. Had to use a clothes peg on my wifeís Mini to keep it in the right place, removing it when the car had warmed up

Personally I'd rather not step back 25 years, yes the cars were so much simpler to work on, but then they had to be as you needed to spend every other weekend with you head under the bonnet

Personally I'm quite happy with my electronic ignition and fuel injection and everything else that makes a modern car complicated. Why? because it starts every morning, and isnít dependant on the weather. It runs smoother and quieter, and is much more efficient.

I'm happy with the improvements to safety, I like the fact that there's a good chance my family will survive an accident and are protected with airbags and crumple zones. I like brakes that stop my car in pretty much all road conditions, and that my car can sort out the best way to apply traction to the road.

Complicated technology on cars - bring it on

Last edited by Pat.w; 28th August 2008 at 11:08 AM.
post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 28th August 2008
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I'm torn between the two car's from 25 years ago have a certain appeal to me but for every day use yep give me todays cars with all their technology and safety improvements.

Jump in press the button quick fuss free warm up virtually instant heat, air con ( condensation free windows ) Long engine life ( for some ) brakes that stop me under most daily driving conditions etc etc.

But I feel we have lost something in the driving experience/ability where we rely on the car and not the driver with all the electronic driving aids on today's car's which in a way possibly contribute to some road incidents, drivers are immune/cocooned to driving conditions as they feel invincible behind the wheel of their cars
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