Laguna 2 NSF wheel bearing replaced now ABS fault ? - Page 3 - Renault Forums :: Independent Renault forum

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 29th October 2012
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Same problem, follow up needed urgently.

A sad coincidence but I have EXACTLY the same problem.

I sourced a pair of replacement front wheel bearings from GSF car parts who re-assured me they had supplied me bearings for the Mk1 Laguna with ABS.

I dragged out my 'scope and checked the presence of wheel pulses on both front wheels. As far as I could tell they were present and at the same level as the pulses coming off the rear which had not been replaced.

One thing I kick myself for is I ran the motor on the axle stands at idle with the wheels off to check for any oil leak from a new left side driveshaft inner gaitor. I remembered I had drawn the pads back a little to ease them back over the discs, so I touched the brake engine running to close them in before test driving. There was an immediate clunk and stall as I suspect the servo reacted more than I expected. I am not sure if the SERV/ABS lights were on before I did this or not.

This is such a painful job to do that I am reluctant to take the hubs off to try something else as first line as I now have both fronts with new bearings.

The SERV/ABS lights are now lit at key on when they went out before. OK they do go out and come back on as TTT said when the car is driven, but it seems to me the ABS computer has now stored a fault code which cannot self clear by driving.

TTT, I would like to see the follow up to this and I do not know how close you are to digging further. In the meantime I can only think that a diagnostics scan is the first thing to get done. After clearing all fault codes, if it then comes back with front wheel sensor faults then I am inclined to suspect the bearings, but I cannot understand this when I am getting wheel pulses.

The only fly in the ointment is if Renault have ever used different pulse counts per wheel revolution in these bearings and now my fronts are incompatible with the rear.

The pulses coming off the sensors are quite frequent. For example, I can rotate the disc less than 25mm at the circumference and see the pulse change voltage polarity. Referred to 10 volts, the pulses are about 1 volt amplitude i.e changing from 10 to 9 volts as you rotate the disc by hand.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 30th October 2012
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Re: Laguna 2 NSF wheel bearing replaced now ABS fault ?

I developed a simple test method to check the wheel sensor output on the car. You do not want to go around swapping bearings and hubs unless you are sure!

I will post a full write up when I have replaced the bearing for the second time. At this stage I would say know where the sensor ring is on the new bearing. It is a thin plastic polymer ring impregnated with ferromagnetic material, AND VERY FRAGILE. Mine was coloured brown. You can make absolutely sure with a small compass. The trade use a clear plastic envelope with iron filings.

When you buy a new bearing, look over the surface of the ring very carefully with an eyeglass magnifier and reject any bearing that has pit or score marks in the surface. Also, make sure that whoever presses the new bearings into the hub and carrier, does not use press tools that could damage the surface of the magnetic ring or place it on a press bed that is dirty with metal filings or swarf. Re-check the sensor ring with a magnifying glass after assembly on the hub. Next time I shall stick Sellotape over it before it goes to the press shop, which will make identifying surface damage a lot easier.

I did not find much info about actually removing the hub and carrier and there are plenty of opportunities to damage the magnetic ring and empty gear oil all over your driveway!

On my Laguna 1, the drive shaft drops and is still under tension from the suspension spring with the road wheel appearing to be fully down. Attempting to pull off the hub ends up in a bit of a 'boing' and crash. I now put on the spring compressors with the wheel loaded so the hub can stay fairly horizontal to the driveshaft when it is pulled off. Nothing said about that in Haynes! I can see plenty of opportunities to damage the surface of the magnetic ring as you are fiddling about trying to get a hub with new bearings back on the end of the driveshaft. Haynes warns about removing the wheel sensor but to be honest, the most important and fragile part is the magnetic ring on the rear of the bearing.

This SERV+ABS fault linked to wheel sensors is a nasty one to confirm if it really is the bearing magnet ring and you need to handle that side of the bearing VERY CAREFULLY. There are 44 (maybe 42) impregnated 'magnets' in the ring and if only one is damaged, the ABS computer will throw up this fault because it is checking the time of each pulse. My car is a Laguna 1 but I suspect they use the same principles on the Laguna 2.

As far as buying a used hub from the scrappy is concerned, if they have not taken care removing it and tossed it in the bin with other parts, the magnet ring could have been damaged. If the ABS wheel sensor fault does not clear, then do not go looking for other things.

Watch this space for a follow up.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 30th October 2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Laguna 2 NSF wheel bearing replaced now ABS fault ?

Hi voxmagna,

Very interesting thoughts there.

I don't think that by running the hubs & then stalling the engine like you did would have caused any problems.
I know ABS systems are designed to reset themselves, if you jack just the drivers side front wheel from the ground then put the car in gear the drivers wheel will spin, this will put on the ABS light, however when the car is driven normally the system will reset itself after a short distance (Speed) and all will be well.
There also must be some tolerance in the system as when you go around a right hand bend (Roundabout) the left hand wheels on the car are turning more than the right hand side wheels.

Maybe if the magnetic pulses from the new bearing (s) are a slightly different pattern than the ones that the computer is used to it will store a fault, maybe the system just needs to be reset to "learn" the new sequence of pulses!
The point you make about the ABS computer possibly storing a fault is interesting, you could be onto something.

I haven't got round to getting a 2nd hand hub from the scrappy yet as I'm full of cold so haven't felt up to crawling around under cars.

When I changed the bearing the ABS light didn't come on straight away, I had drove the car about 5 miles before it came on which seems strange as you would think if there was a problem it would be apparent straight away. I also can't understand how the speedo is working fine if the pulses from the bearing are wrong?

I had a very similar thing happen when I replaced the rear discs on my car just over a year ago. The replacement discs came complete with bearings & ABS ring so it was just a case of old discs off new one's on.
With the new discs fitted all was well....until I drove the car approx 5 miles then the ABS light came on...can you spot the pattern emerging!

Now at the time I was having problems with my ABS light that was coming on intermittently so I just thought it was part of that far a I can remember after the rear disc change the ABS remained on until I changed the dashpod (clocks) on the car due to the processor not working in the cold weather (Yes I've had all of the nice easy to suss out problems ) anyway I'm sure that when the 2nd hand clocks went in the ABS light went off (They still illuminated as they should when starting the car) and I then thought that it was maybe the dodgy processor of the clocks that had been causing the problems with the ABS lights.....

That was until I decided to try out the ABS system to see if it was actually wasn't...I could get the car to skid with no signs of the ABS working when I stood on the brakes, however I had no ABS warning lights lit up...that's when I started THIS THREAD

As you will see from reading the thread in the link changing the ABS pump cured the problems and all was warning lights and the ABS was working fine.

Now thinking about it on both occasions when I have changed a magnetic ring on the brakes it has caused the ABS light to come on after about 5 miles of driving ...a bit of a coincidence or what?
I wonder if the light comes on once a certain speed is reached rather than distance!

I wonder if the system becomes confused because the magnetic pulses are slightly different to the ones it had from the old magnetic rings so throws up a fault that needs to be reset !


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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 31st October 2012
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Re: Laguna 2 NSF wheel bearing replaced now ABS fault ?

the flanges need to have the right mag strips fitted (if clip on stainless steel type)
they are usually 48 pulse types... (but there is a 44 pulse version!)

you will need to run a computer CAN-CLIP on the car to do a diagnostics check and manually reset the sensors to ensure they are all calibrated correctly.
also re-check the cables and connections.
the passenger front is the shortest cable and drives the speedo, the drivers side one is on an extension cable that runs across the subframe in front of the steering rack (its this one that is most at risk if any service work loosens the subframe)
(the drivers side cable is the same part no. as passenger side.) 5 from a scrappers, 35+ from a dealership.

it takes up to 20miles travel before the car does updates on TPS or ABS issues.

refit the ABS sensors, check the Hubs bolts are fully tightened up correctly (i'm assuming the Flange/Bearing/Hub are correctly fitted together.)
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 31st October 2012
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Re: Laguna 2 NSF wheel bearing replaced now ABS fault ?

hi all,,had this problem before,found that when replaced bearings with intergrated sensors in like abs reluckter wheel that the air gap is different and gives different signal,so always replace with genuine abs components as alernative replacements don,t give the required operating signal needed to maintain correet operation by relevant system.
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abs , bearing , fault , laguna , nsf , replaced , wheel

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