: 1.9dci loss of power white smoke


coggsy
17th June 2009, 10:19 AM
hi my lag 1.9dci has a loss of power and white smoke when idling ,intermitently. when i pulled of the motorway the engine managment light came and went i have removed the air filter but the problem is still there but no managment lightfor about a week before the oil warnig light was coming on first thing then disappearing for the rest of the journey any ideas cheers:

Donald
17th June 2009, 11:17 AM
Hi it sounds like a turbo problem?? check all the surrounding pipes running from and to the turbo are all in place and check for any signs of splits or damage to any of the pipes?? its a starting point:o until another members comes along to help,Cheers Donald

ALGO
17th June 2009, 11:42 AM
Possibly turbo but check for oil in water or vice versa [chance of head gasket]

coggsy
18th June 2009, 11:27 AM
hi my lag 1.9dci has a loss of power and white smoke when idling ,intermitently. when i pulled of the motorway the engine managment light came and went i have removed the air filter but the problem is still there but no managment lightfor about a week before the oil warnig light was coming on first thing then disappearing for the rest of the journey any ideas cheers:cheers fellas mechanic looking at it today,took engine cover off an oil and gunk around the air flow meter....

coggsy
19th June 2009, 08:13 PM
my mechanic flushed out old engine oil today ,new oil ,filters took it for a blast on the motorway on reaching 60 heaterplug light and the light above came on (eng management i think)and no more power ,pulled of switched engine of/on lights had gone,car still feeling slugish and lacking power but as i was driving lots of grey/black smoke ,this was not the case before the motorway, any clues cheers

James260688
19th June 2009, 10:10 PM
99.9 % sure (as said above) a turbo problem.

It's a common fault on the Renault Lagunas.... (There are a few different types, one is the same as a Vivaro/Traffic/Primestar)

ALGO
20th June 2009, 12:39 AM
Still might be the turbo but by rights it shouldnt bring on the heater plug light ,get a sniffer on it and check for combustion gas in the cooling system and also check the EGR valve these are both cheaper options to check before diving into turbo territory

madnoel10
20th June 2009, 01:39 PM
Grey and black smoke from the exhaust on a diesel engine is a sign of either too much fuel or too little air.
If it were mine I would be investigating the turbo or its plumbing and intercooler. It may also be worth checking the MAF isn't contaminated or damaged:)

coggsy
20th June 2009, 03:12 PM
today i clean the egr with carb cleaner it was clogged,wiped all connecting pipes housing etc put it back together and took it for a spin ,more smoke than ever also lots when idling although power seemed to be better not back to normal, but better than it has been ,turbo is next on the list .mechanic has his own cheap diagnostic(argos)when he plugged it in he couldnt see any probs at all are these reliable?....:crazy:

madnoel10
20th June 2009, 06:00 PM
Sadly no diagnostic machine can diagnose a duff turbo - at best it may detect low inlet pressure but there could be umpteen other reasons for such.
Additionally the Renault software system is pretty much unique to Renaults and many expensive diagnostic systems even fail to cope at times so I doubt a cheapo version is likely to detect anything significant:)

coggsy
21st June 2009, 06:31 PM
hello ,took the maf of today seemed ok but cleaned anyway ,but have now noticed oil coming from the exhaust and not much on the dipstick hoping it wasnt the turbo but everything is pointing that way. how do i confirm it without removal....:confused:

madnoel10
21st June 2009, 06:40 PM
You could try removing the air intake pipe to the output side of the turbo and have a peek in and giving the turbo blades a shake or if you see loads of oil in there I would think it furbarred:)

coggsy
21st June 2009, 06:53 PM
where exactly is the turbo (are there any pics on the web)and how big a job is it .

madnoel10
21st June 2009, 06:57 PM
There will be a large diameter pipe coming out of the air-filter box - follow it down to the back of the engine and you should see it mounted on the exhaust manifold:)

coggsy
21st June 2009, 07:12 PM
cheers will check it out.

coggsy
25th June 2009, 12:43 PM
hi turbo came today but the bumf that came with it say i should replace the oil decanter is this true,i plan on cleaning the intercooler and relevent pipes with hot soapy water ,there is oil in the exhaust what can i flush this out with ...cheers

madnoel10
25th June 2009, 01:25 PM
I wonder do they mean the oil collector/condensor fitted to the crankcase breather system or the turbo oil return pipe. It may be worth emailing them to find out.
If the oil collector was blocked there is the possibility that too high a crankcase pressure may impede the turbo oil return to the engine:)

coggsy
25th June 2009, 02:31 PM
this is the photo that was sent to me,i am not sure what its called

madnoel10
25th June 2009, 04:25 PM
It is as I thought - it the oil separator or sometimes referred to as oil condensor. It usually fitted to the crankcase with the breather hose and on some engines the dipstick as well. They are prone to blocking (another downside to long service intervals) so to ensure the turbo can dump its returning oil without hindrance it needs to be really clean.:)

coggsy
25th June 2009, 04:51 PM
can these be cleaned ,if so what method or is it better to replace....

madnoel10
25th June 2009, 04:55 PM
They normally contain a filter/flame arrestor which can be a devil to get at or clean properly. If it were mine I would get a new one to be sure and also prserve any warranty you may have on the turbo:)

coggsy
25th June 2009, 05:13 PM
a new one its is then....cheers

coggsy
1st July 2009, 08:44 PM
replaced the turbo today and took it for a gentle spin about 1/2 mile then onto m62 ,doin 70 then came at junction drove another 1/2 m and a noise and loss of power limped home and discovered the pipe bottom left of rad had come of.tightened it back up and the car drove well but....it seems a bit sluggish/resistant around 2000revs not much but wasnt there before ,is there something ive forgot or does it need to be drove a bit....cheers

coggsy
1st July 2009, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=coggsy;525958]replaced the turbo today and took it for a gentle spin about 1/2 mile then onto m62 ,doin 70 then came at junction drove another 1/2 m and a noise and loss of power limped home and discovered the pipe bottom left of rad had come of.tightened it back up and the car drove well but....it seems a bit sluggish/resistant around 2000revs not much but wasnt there before ,is there something ive forgot or does it need to be drove a bit....cheers

madnoel10
1st July 2009, 08:48 PM
I assue you cleaned the intercooler - a blocked intercooler will cause the plumbing to separate. On the other hand maybe you just overlooked tightening the clip, etc. It may be worth checking the EGR valve again which can get soaked in oil form the exhaust after a turbo blows and could cause hesitation around the 2000 rpm mark.:)

P.S. After cleaning the EGR valve you may need to drive the car for 3-4 miles so the ECU can re-learn its paramneters, etc. This happend to me after my last EGR valve clean-out:)

coggsy
1st July 2009, 08:57 PM
yes cleaned the intercool ran boiling water through it for 45 mins then hot kettle then another rinse it was running clear when we finnished cleaned egr thoroughly but had to turn engine on to reverse up the path would this have clogged it again ....i think it may need a new batterey would this interfere.....

coggsy
2nd July 2009, 06:04 PM
car seems to be ok ,drove 12miles today at first it felt nervey 2nd/3rd gears but after about 10 mile it seemed ok ...but when i turn the ignition off it seems a bit violent ,a definite shake at the end ,any ideas....cheers

madnoel10
2nd July 2009, 06:20 PM
Check the stop damper valve on the inlet manifold is operating correctly:)

coggsy
3rd July 2009, 09:25 AM
i have just dropped my youngest off at school ,a bit ropey 2nd/3rd so took another look. oil is now comin from a pipe on top of the turbo, a long ,oddly shaped thin black, metal pipe on the left as we look at it, what should i do, can i drive it ,is there now more oil in the turbo. its over 700 ive spent and its getting on my wick....any thoughts .

coggsy
3rd July 2009, 12:21 PM
i have added pics to show pipe what does this pipe do and what damage could be done to the turbo ,mind that it has only done 25/30 miles,if just a split seel can the turbo be saved.

madnoel10
3rd July 2009, 12:50 PM
Looks like the oil supply pipe to the turbo is leaking at its joint. I suggest you don't drive the car. The turbo may be OK but should the oil supply fail then its death to the turbo. Did you renew the pipes or seals as recommended? It is possible you have nipped one of the rubber jointing seals (easily done) during assembly.
I suggest you check all seals at all the pipes are in good nick:)

coggsy
3rd July 2009, 01:29 PM
what do you mean "oil supply fail"there is plenty on the dipstick ,would this pipe force more oil into the turbo than is needed therefore ruining the turbo or can you catch this and how would i check would the turbo have to come off a gain ....i have the pipe waiting for me at renault can it just be replaced or is there more cheers ...by the way thanks noel your help is very welcome

madnoel10
3rd July 2009, 01:37 PM
The oil feed pipe is supplied under pressure via the engine oil pump and should it fail not only would the turbo run out of oil but also the engine. You should be able to fit a new pipe without removing the turbo albeit a bit awkward of a job.
The turbo has both an oil supply pipe and return - just be sure both are sound with no leaks whatsever. Renault recommend renewing both pipes along with their seals but many people seem to just replace the seals and clean the pipes. I do believe Renault have also modified the pipes on some models to improve oil supply and return so it may be worth asking next time you are at the Renault stores:)

coggsy
4th July 2009, 04:52 PM
replaced turbo oil feed pipe today when we changed the turbo the return pipe and its seals looked fine so we left that ..i have a replacement so were goin for a drive tonight and i will check for oil leaks tomorrow if it need changing i will do it then

coggsy
7th July 2009, 02:56 PM
hi..since the last post the car has been running ok but there is a misfire in 2nd/3rd gear getting up to speed only slight ,passengers hardly notice but i know its there. the turbo seems fine 4th gear and still loads left in it almost back to normal...could it be the egr which i have cleaned but there were problems after ,could it be a fuel filter or the heater plugs ,the problem is definitly worse when the engine is cold.....going to anglesey in 2 weeks and would like to drive over with a bit of confidense in the old lag...any clues lads and lasses cheers.

madnoel10
7th July 2009, 03:11 PM
The glow-plugs shouldn't cause a misfire - they are only in use during start-up. Did you clean the turbo pressure sensor:)

coggsy
7th July 2009, 06:23 PM
not sure ,cleaned a lot of pipes, sensors ,were on the engine is it

madnoel10
7th July 2009, 06:54 PM
The sensor is fitted to the rubber/plastic pipe that comes from the intercooler to the inlet manifold. It's press and clip in with a couple of wires connected:)

coggsy
7th July 2009, 08:18 PM
just cleaned with some carb cleaner also took egr off again and gave that a clean,give the car a good blast in the morning ...odd thing which i hadnt noticed i revved the car to 1800 revs and the revs fluctuated slightly up and down very slightly but in a cycle ,2secs just up from 1800 then back down ..is this normal?

coggsy
8th July 2009, 04:57 PM
what are the correct pipe positions coming from the turbo pressure solenoid i have 2 differing diagrams from renault one has the bottom of the sol going to the turbo the other the top does it make a difference i think it would any offers....

coggsy
8th July 2009, 06:07 PM
could somekind soul have a look at there 1.9dci turbo sol (top back left )in the engine compartment and tell which nossle the turbo is connected to...cheers

Nikko1
8th July 2009, 06:52 PM
The turbo actuator is connected to the top outlet on the solenoid valve

coggsy
9th July 2009, 04:20 PM
when recently cleaning the egr on my lag ii 1.9dci as i removed it the valve broke into 2 parts but i have just read an old post and is this normal ,i took it out yesterday for another blast with carb cleaner and the same thing .....i got it back on ok ,everything tight just wondering if the problem i have now (slight misfire going up through 2nd/3rd up to 2000/22000revs is the egr also i didnt check the manifold for carbon build ...whats my next next move fellas,as the car is driving 95% to before the turbo went, mpg back up to 38 urban....cheers

madnoel10
9th July 2009, 04:41 PM
Ensure the internal ports and circular gallery is clean - it's like a groove running round the inside of the EBR valve housing:)

It is possible to test the EGR valve - see link below

http://www.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/PG_SI_0085_EN_WEB.pdf

coggsy
9th July 2009, 04:49 PM
the egr was very clean all over i scraped it and gave it a good hour with the tooth brush and carb cleaner ,i am just worried the manifold has still got carbon deposits inside the manifold, what is the best way to clean this

madnoel10
9th July 2009, 04:53 PM
Using a soft piece of wire were you able to feel the internal ports weren't blocked and could you see the circular groove inside. Cleaning the bit that comes out won't make any difference if the inners are coked up:)

coggsy
12th July 2009, 04:30 PM
today i cleaned out the port for the egr and the inlet manifold ,i took the egr and the stop valve off and there was oil in both?then as a felt inside for the ports to the egr i felt what i can only describe as black butter,really thick oil clogging up both ports.after 3hours of cleaning with wire coat hanger,cloth,carb cleaner and a scrapper made from a small tent peg i decided i couldnt get it much cleaner,the thing im worried about is the thick butter like oil,i know the turbo blew because of this oil but since then we have flushed the engine,changed the oil(5 w30),filter,air filter,cleaned the intercooler with boiling soapy water until it ran clear,same with all the pipes,so why is this oilly butter still somewhere in the engine, is there any danger of another turbo faliure.....any thoughts chaps?

madnoel10
12th July 2009, 04:40 PM
The inlet manifold on diesel engines naturally get a coat of black carbon. I would suspect that the oil blowing out of your duff turbo has made this worse. Unless there are likely to be big loose chunks of the stuff hanging around I wouldn't think you have much to worry about. Some people actually take the inlet manifold off to do a proper clean. Take the car for a good hot drive without reving too hard and see how it goes:)

coggsy
12th July 2009, 04:45 PM
will do ....i gave the egr/manifold a good clean because of your advice about engine hesitation,i have drove the car all week and the same thing has happened...when cold the hesitation is there as it warms up it goes and the car feels more responsive,i hope this cleaning sorts the prob cheers noel.

SatyS
26th July 2009, 08:23 PM
Update please.How is the car running?. I have a noise coming from my turbo pressure soleinoid. Is this normal???

madnoel10
27th July 2009, 12:52 PM
Hi SatyS - is your turbo solenoid contantly ticking or buzzing:)

coggsy
4th August 2009, 03:56 PM
just to update,the car is running great ,been to anglesey and back last week, 400 miles with a boot full of luggage , 3 kids and the missus,not a sign of anything wrong,do as noel says check and clean egr ,and turbo sol...great advice on here from genuine people.