Independent Renault Forums banner

Clio 52 plate 1.5 Dci will not start.

82K views 60 replies 20 participants last post by  hellsfire 
#1 ·
Hi all,

Had a problem with my Clio, vehicle ahead of me was slipping on a hill, so I had to decellerate briskly, I applied the brake, then after I had slowed some I let the engine braking take over. Suddenly the car sounded like a bag of spanners, I'm not sure if it was mechanical or fuel related, so I pulled over and stopped the engine.

I tried to start the engine again but although it would crank over it would not start.

I checked the timing, and it was fine. Replaced the belt anyway since it was due.

I was experiencing problems with the fuel pump previously, please see my thread here. So I replaced this with new, but the car still will not start.

There are no fault codes logged in the ECU. When I turn the key on, I see the glow plugs light come on, then go out after a second, I see the small red circular immobiliser come on and then go out, I see the STOP light in the top left corner of the light cluster come on and stay on permamently.

I have checked the glow plug relay and it's working correctly. I have checked all the relays in the fuse box and they're fine.

The Crankshaft sensor/TDC sensor is reporting a higher than normal impedance of 670 Ohms, and two of the glowplugs appear to be reading abnormal impedences, but since the glowplug light comes on and goes off I doubt this would cause the car not to start? Since the car was running roughly until I switched it off, can anyone advise what it could be, or what else I can check?

I have read possibly the EGR valve or sensor issue could cause this? Can someone tell me a little about this?

I've also read the camshaft sensor can cause this, where is this located?

Does anyone know what the impedance of the high-pressure fuel pump timing sensor should be, it is located on the lower timing belt cover?

A year ago I had to replace the earth leads to each of my front fog lights to get them working, but the car has ran fine for some time since doing this, can anyone tell me where the earth points on the car are so I can check them all?

Thanks for any information.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
theres 5 different engine codes for these the fuel inerta cut off switch on some of these feed the voltage via this switch to engine control relay at relay base terminal 1 Try starting using aerosol can of brake cleaner sprayed lightly into air intake The crankshaft sensor ohms reading should be between
700-880 can you post engine code Hth Regards Mickeybo
 
#4 ·
Hi there, thanks for the information so far, I've not had a chance to check the engine code yet but will this evening, can you confirm that the impedance of the Crank Position/TDC sensor should be between 700-800 Ohms for the diesel Dci 1.5?

The Haynes manual section 4a suggests that the TDC sensors are between 200-280 Ohms, however section 4a refers to petrol engines, section 4b of the manual deals with diesel engines and they do not list the TDC sensor impedance in section 4b.
 
#5 ·
Hi there, the engine is a K9K-704 or a K9K-710 I can't be sure, it's the 80bhp variant.

Clio Extreme 1.5 DCi 8v 80bhp with Delphi common rail high pressure diesel injection.

Does the stop light remaining on represent anything in particular? I am not able to detect a fault code with my OBD-II reader.
 
#6 ·
Firstly is your code reader compliant. As not all code readers are Renault compliant your reader may not be able to detect any stored faults.
The STOP warning can arise for various reasons such as brake problems. One other reason is where the ECU has detected a fuel pressure outside the set parameters.
 
#7 ·
I looked into this and it seems that the Clio diesels do not support generic OBD-II until 2004, is the Renault Clip the only device which will reliably do this? Are there any cheap software alternatives, I have an ELM327 interface.

I managed to find a coupler connecting two of the main coolant hoses together on the left side (over the gearbox) of the engine towards the back, it has three connectors going to it, a Yellow, Green and what appeared to be a Yellow/Black striped wire. The yellow and green had come off. When I've looked into this, it appears to be a heater for the coolant. Does anyone know the correct name for this device, would it stop the car from starting? Reattaching the lines doesn't appear to have corrected my fault.

Running out of ideas now.
 
#8 · (Edited)
A month on and this car still will not start.

I've done a compression test and compression is fine, I've verified the timing is correct again. I've made sure there's no air in the fuel lines. I've replaced the TDC sensor just in case. Two of the glow plugs were faulty so replaced these just in case.

I started getting the engine management light flashing while I cranked the engine, paid for a diagnostic @ £80 and the Renault garage said they believe the fuel pressure regulator was stuck open generating 600bar. Compared the sensor against a known working one and it appeared to be faulty, replaced this and it still won't start. Now when it cranks I don't get any engine management lights, it just refuses to fire. I cracked off the injectors and diesel sprayed out so the fuel is getting through.

Stop light in the top-left corner remains on, Immobiliser light comes on then goes out, glow plug light comes on then goes out, engine mgmt light comes on then goes out. I crank the engine, she turns over and over and will not fire in to life.

I am completely lost.

The garage told me to replace the regulator, wanted to charge me £300 for it but from what I can tell from a working unit, it simply splits the diesel through a chamber, they don't seem to be mechanical unless they have some sort of pressure actuated valve within them? I have ordered one second hand anyway just waiting for it to turn up, the garage said they can get it running for me for £390. I am not sure if they're leading me down the garden path and it's something very simple?

The car refusing to start happened under very similar circumstances to the gentleman who posted the following thread http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123306 I took my foot off the accelerator to slow as the guy ahead of me was wheel spinning, suddenly the car sounded like a bag of spanners. I pulled over and killed the engine, I started it again a few moments later and drove up the road about a mile before I decided I wasn't happy with the noise, pulled over and towed it home. Since then, can't get it started.
 
#9 ·
Fuel pressure regulator controls the pressure supplied to the common rail it operates on a 12v feed.I would start by removing the plug 2 terminal and checking resistance across regulators 2 pin's ohms reading should be approx 5.3 ohms. at key on the 12v travels through regulator to ecu pin no2m4 What i'm saying here is at key on if your getting the 12v feed at ecu pin no 2m4 then your regulator & wiring are ok. Next stage to check is the regulator being driven by the ecu. Check outrail pressure sensor 3 terminals marked 1-2-3 At key on terminal 3 5v's At term 1 key on 0.5v Term 2 earth. can you check this and post back Regards Mickeybo
 
#10 ·
Mr Wild,

My 02 clio 1.5dci is doin the exact same thing.
Going up a hill under throttle it brought on the coil light, gas light to the right of it and the stop light in top left corner. When you take foot off throttle lights went out.
The lights coming on began to happen more frequently and eventually the car started cutting out while driving until it finally cut out and wouldnt restart.

Towed it home and got it on the computer.
Fuel rail pressure was really high and the regulating valve sensor was tripped.
Got a second hand regulator off a pump and installed it, car wouldnt start first turn, 2nd turn foot flat to floor she started but was really lumpy (like a petrol car running on 3 cylinders) Reved it for about 2 mins and turned her off.
Rebooted the ecu (disconected battery terminals and touched them with the key in 2nd turn position).
Restarted the car again with foot to the floor and it went for about 20seconds then there was a crack and it died again.
Now it wont start at all.
If you find a solution before i do post it up and ill do vice versa.
Gonna try replacing the whole rail and the other 2 sensors. However im worried about the crack incase it was the timing belt (only 20k on it) so gonna check it first. The crack may have been just a misfire so fingers crossed
 
#11 ·
The fuel pressure regulator on your h/pressure pump controls the pressure supplied supplied to the high pressure common rail. if you disconnect 2 pin plug from this regulator check resistance across it's 2 pin's reading should be approx 5.3 ohms & has a 12v feed at key on this 12v's travels through regulator coil to ecu pin no bm4. You would need to check at key on for 12v's at ecu pin no bm4 this regulator is activated & controlled by the ecu. check fuel rail pressure sensor has a 3 terminal plug marked 1-2-3 At term 3 key on must have 5v feed. Term 1 key on must have 0.5v. Term 2 is earth Hth Regards Mickeybo
 
#12 ·
Hi there,

I did a comparison ohms test between the original sensor and the new replacement, the original was giving spurious impedance values and the new seems to be correct at 5.3 ohms, furthermore I can validate that it's functioning correctly by cranking the engine and loosening the sensor off at the regulator, with the sensor loosened and diesel spilling out from the neck of the regulator when cranking I see the engine management light on the dash, when I tighten the sensor back up and crank the engine management light doesn't come on.

Car still will not start, adding more confusion to the mix today, we tried towing it at 40mph to see if we had sticky piston rings and to force the fuel to be sucked through (although there is no air in the lines that we can see).

While towing with the ignition switched on and engaging 3rd and 4th gear, the rev counter would not increase and stayed at 0.

Very very confusing, not sure why this is, I was thinking this would be related to the crank sensor/TDC sensor which has been replaced, but surely if this was at fault there would be an engine management light to show a problem? Just adding more confusion.
 
#13 · (Edited)
In the previous post I was confused with which was the high pressure regulator and which was the high pressure sensor, so it probably doesn't make much sense.

Impedence on the brown coloured pressure regulator on the high pressure pump was 5.4Ohms. At key on I can't pick up a 12v voltage to the plug from the ECU, the voltmeter seems to fluctuate between 0.00 and 0.01 volts rapidly. I watched a diagnostic video on Youtube which said this is a PCM signal, so perhaps the voltmeter isn't picking this up?

I then tested the 3 pin pressure sensor plug on the 'spider', at key on pins 1&2 read 2.67volts while pins 3&2 read 4.58volts. If 2.67 volts is proportional to the voltage supplied this suggests somewhere around 600bar, I had been cranking the engine prior to testing this but would expect somewhere around 300bar after cranking.

I could hear a buzzing noise coming from the high pressure sensor, so I unplugged it and the noise stopped, plugged it back in and heard a high pitched whine.

I've spoken to a diesel expert who told me that there is nothing in the 'spiders' themselves, they are just a hollow casting.

I have a print out diagnostic from the Renault garage which shows 300bar requested from the pump and 1100bar detected.

I believe the high pressure sensor on the spider to be working correctly as when I loosen it off and crank the engine, the engine management light flashes, when tightened back up all returns to normal.

Renault garage have told me, fuel pressure is high, but can't detect fuel flow. Renault are blaming this on the high pressure pump. This pump was replaced with new after I was unable to start the car so I would be surprised. I will take this back Monday, I am concerned this is not the root cause however.
 
#14 ·
Car still not starting, cleaned out the tank again, cleaned out the fuel lines, refurbished the pump (which was new), refurbished the injectors.

Cranks and does not start. 'Stop' light in top left corner of light cluster (believe this is normal), nothing else indicating a fault.

I've now spent a fortune and I'm at a loss. Renault diagnostics blamed the new pump, so had the pump reconditioned, and I still have a dead car.
 
#17 ·
The fuel pressure regulator on the pump gets it's 12v
feed via main engine control relay which also powers up a few other things like cam sensor & a few ecu pin no's. Can you recheck fuel rail sensor indiviguallyback probing plug connected using multimeter terminal 3 key on shiuld read 4.97/98 approx. At terminal 1 volts should read o.5v Terminal 2 is the earth. I do strongly believe your problem is wiring related or ecu problem. Can you check out main engine control relay fuse 1 (25amp)feeds base
terminals 1 & 3 relay removed this relay is then earthed to ecu pin no cf1. Hth Regards Mickeybo
 
#19 · (Edited)
Ok, fuel pressure sensor on the common rail is 0.5v pins 1&2 at ignition on, after cranking it remains at 0.5v. pins 2&3 are reading 5.0v.

On the high pressure pump I see 0.45v on the brown plug, just under 5v on the green.

Pulled one of the reconditioned injectors out and kept it connected while cranking the engine, no fuel came out of the injector.

For clarification, the main engine control relay is the glow plug relay? i.e.:



I read a similar topic which suggested a bad earth to this relay would cause the stop light to illuminate:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?461166-engine-control-relay

Unsure if they're discussing the stop light which literally says 'STOP' as they mention it being on the right, but mine is the stop light in the top left-hand corner of the cluster.

Still seeing 12v on the glowplugs.
 
#20 ·
Trying to diagnose why my glow plugs are on constantly, the post here:

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92792

States that this should be controlled by 1 of the 3 small black relays in the fuse box, if I unplug all 3 of these my glow plugs are still on constantly.

I always have a 12v live going to pin 3 of the large glow plug relay in the picture above. But this seems to be fed by a 70Amp brown fuse in the fuse box, which takes a feed directly from the battery.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Thank you for that, I did find some information which supports that, ok.

So the only remaining questions are:

* Why I'm not seeing 12v at the brown fuel pressure regulator plug on the high pressure pump. I have about 0.5v at key on.
* Why are the injectors not activating? Is this a knock on effect of the above? Pressure sensor on the common rail shows 0.5v, this is the correct pressure reading is it not? Therefore injectors should fire?

I've been checking the earth on the black relays, the one closest the engine, at key on, pin 2 has a good earth very low impedance, pin 5 is reading 1500Ohms, the next black relay adjacent by comparison pin 2 has very low impedance, so does pin 5, looks like could be an earthing fault on pin 5?

Since Pin 1 is powered all the time, would it be safe to connect pin 5 to pin 2 to bond their earths?
 
#23 ·
Bought a can clip, shows 340bar requested, 8bar measured. Tried with 2 different sensors.

Can I safely say that the pump is at fault? Or should I test anything else.

I would be majorly annoyed with the company reconning if it does turn out to be a pump problem.

When renault garage did the diagnostics and they saw 1100bar at the pump, they blamed the pump or the common rail pressure sensor. Since I know it's not the sensor, do I now know it's the pump?
 
#25 ·
Thanks for the input.

Everything has been thoroughly cleaned.

* I used a fish tank pump to pump the diesel out of the tank, and then cleaned it out thoroughly.
* I filled the fuel lines with cleaning fluid and then used an air compressor to blast the lines clear.
* I've replaced the filter twice.
* I've had the injectors professionally reconned.
* I've changed the pump, I've then had the pump reconned a second time.
* I've changed the 'spider' on the common rail, and switched the sensors to verify their readings.
* The injectors are not firing.
* The glow plugs are on constantly though the light operates as expected at key on.
* I've verified the continuity of several of the earths to the ECU.
* I've verified the operation of relays and integrity of fuses.
* The can clip does not detect any faults when performing multiplex computer test.


I'll check the pump pressure regulator again, can you confirm the regulator is the brown plug? Should be 12v at key on right?

The other sensor I have been informed is a temperature sensor.
 
#26 · (Edited)
12v on the brown rail pressure regulator plug on the pump.

Good impedence on the brown wire from the ECU pin 2m4 to the regulator on the pump.

Good impedence on the grey wire from the regulator on the pump to the relay on the fuse box.

When I test the grey wire to the regulator on the pump I get 450k Ohms. Can anyone compare.

5.3 ohms across the brown pressure regulator sensor itself on the pump.

0.5v on the common rail pressure sensor on the spider of the common rail.

340bar requested from can clip.
8 bar detected from can clip.

No obvious signs of pressure when releasing the pressure sensor off the spider.

Looks like the pump is still to blame.

In other news, 12v to the glow plugs is 5mA. No fault.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top