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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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What year is the Van,
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Oops Thanks Dave.

So it is possible on that year pump is failing, .

Personally would just go on 3 injectors and a new filter, and go from there.

Not all the pumps were faulty, and dont seem to have lasted that many miles ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Cheers. Got injectors on order.

This solved it before for a decent amount of time so if we get another couple of years out of the van I think we'll be ok with that, will likely have well over 200k miles in a couple years anyway.

If it gets nearer or over 200k and the pump actually dies I think we will be done with it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Hmm it has not gone well. Three injectors replaced. It was looking good. Fourth injector snapped in the cylinder head.

Attempts to remove it have so far failed. Drilling, chisel, heat. Bigger drill and drill bit on the way so I'll just have at it until the bugger is out.

Always nice when things escalate. A nice reminder why I've never owned a Renault myself. 😂
 

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Super Moderator Technical Supremo Platinum Member
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Change the filter, get a good sample of fuel in a clean jar, leave it overnight to let any particles settle.
Check the old filter for signs of metallic fines.

I cannot discount the pump but am thinking more it is simply three old injectors...or a wear and tear hole in the fuel feed system...primer bulbs have been known to split.

If a pump eats itself, it generates loads of metallic fines, these go all through the fuel system.
If it were, why would a new(ish) injector not also be clogged with them and leaking?
 

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Ah....just seen your posts above mine...weren't showing for some reason.
Be wary when drilling out, you do not want to damage the seat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I'll let you know how it goes. Will exchange drill bit for reamer when it gets close so that the seat hopefully remains flush and not angled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Right...

I got the injector half out successfully and fitted the new ones. Still won't start. I really think the fuel pump has had it tbh as the injectors are all OK now. EasyStart won't even get it going! Still got code P00089.

I've sourced another 1.5DCi for a short term runaround but ideally would like to do an engine swap.

The engine in our car I have been trying to fix is a 2005 (55 plate) K9K 702, the donor vehicle is a 2004 (04 plate) K9K 704.

Would this be a straight swap? Does anyone know? Struggling to find information online.

Cheers,
J
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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EasyStart won't even get it going!
Until you can get it running on Easy start there is a mechanical problem imo .......................... Easy Start's presence requires air and compression only in order to run ..................no diesel so fuel pump and injectors are totally irrelevant
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Take the glow plugs out, cap full of oil in each cylinder through the glow plug holes ( syringe will help here )
Put glow plugs back in, now crank the engine a few times.
Now get to the injectors, take each pipe off,the injectors ( just the part that goes onto the injector ) spray where the pipes go with Easy start.
Refit the pipes, With the hand primer pressure system.
Get some one now to try and start the engine while you spray easy start in the turbo mouth.
Not a lot of ES , just short bursts.
Once it fires, keep it running on ES, and at the same time pump the primer..
Keep it running for at least 10 minutes, and every now and again, rev to 2-3000 RPM .
Once engine is up to full temp, then you can switch it off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Hi guys, thanks a lot for your responses.

I went back out after sending my last message to try my luck. Eventually got it n running after fidfling with injector n seats, some priming, and a jump start. Had it running got a while now and took it for a spin and it starts really well now, no problem, no EasyStart.

However, when it first started it had injector knock, solved that by checking some fault codes and replacing one of the copper washers. That got rid of the juddering and white smoke.

However it still occasionally flashes up the glow plug light when idling. I suspect bad compression somewhere, perhaps piston rings or valve seats. It's an old engine. To confirm this I checked a few things (I have a compression tester).

See the following video:
I'm confident that some valve seals and rings are borked. The lack of compression coupled with the dying high pressure fuel pump is likely the reason it struggles to start, and the replacement injectors are likely the only thing keeping it running. That is until they get older.

I think this engine is not worth saving. It is a K9K 702, I have a K9K 704 donor engine, do you guys know if it'll be a straight swap?

Cheers,
J
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Hello guys,

Back again, 8 months later. If my partner hadn't converted this thing into a camper years ago with love and pride it would be in a scrap yard by now!

Following on from above, the thing died quite suddenly when driving (first time that has happened) a few weeks ago. I concluded that it had gotten to the point where the pump just couldn't do it's job anymore and it had thrown crap into the injectors on its last breath. Given that the head had been damaged getting that last injector out, and the blow-by was just insane indicating borked rings, I gave up on that engine.

I've now done the engine swap! The lower-mileage (130ish k) 1.5DCi block has gone in and I've swapped over the turbos, put working Delphi injectors in and done the cambelt and water pump etc for good measure. Fuel tank and lines are sorted and flushed with replacement filter. It's now running but we still have some issues:

1. Fault Codes P0670 & P0110 won't go away.
2. There's some hints of smoke around the fuel rail spider area that increases slightly with revs.
3. When revving there was a sudden noise and now the engine is substantially louder.

Trying to work through these issues now but we have a mostly working vehicle! Just need to sort the front coil spring I discovered was snapped during the swap.

For point 2 above, injector 3 (third from gearbox) doesn't sit perfectly as there's a mark on the valve seat from removing a carbon-sealed washer. I've got a reamer/injector seat cutter just for the job which should sort that, but the smoke seems to be coming from lower than the injector seat...??

For point 3 it sounded really bad but the engine still runs totally fine and I cannot for the life of me work out what it was, but there's an obvious audible difference!

Any help on the above issues would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
J
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Okay guys.

Solved most of this now:

1. I've put the glow plugs from the original engine in as they were nearly new, P0670 is gone now. P0110 remains despite trying a different Air Intake Temp sensor.

2. The injector seat was slightly damaged after removing the old injector washer, so I've recut that injector seat and put a new washer in. I thought I still saw smoke afterwards but I really can't tell now! Maybe it's sorted...

3. It split a hose near the turbo, hidden away behind other stuff. That's been replaced and it sounds better now.

BUT, AS ALWAYS, WE HAVE A NEW PROBLEM!

4. This engine had very little blow-by when it was on the previous vehicle, I'm pretty sure opening the oil filler cap when it was running didn't previously splatter oil in the vicinity, and I think there's some exhaust/combustion gas coming it. It sounds like an exhaust!

I've checked the main breather hose (which has the Air Intake Temp sensor on it) and cleared that out. I've also removed and cleaned the EGR valve etc. Still the same. So I did a compression test:

- my gauge runs out at 20 bar (it's for petrols...) but looking at where the needle goes after 5 cycles each cylinder is getting 25-27 bar (cold). There's no meaningful difference across the cylinders from what I can tell.

I'm starting to run out of ideas!

Cheers,
J
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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Okay guys.

Solved most of this now:

1. I've put the glow plugs from the original engine in as they were nearly new, P0670 is gone now. P0110 remains despite trying a different Air Intake Temp sensor.

2. The injector seat was slightly damaged after removing the old injector washer, so I've recut that injector seat and put a new washer in. I thought I still saw smoke afterwards but I really can't tell now! Maybe it's sorted...

3. It split a hose near the turbo, hidden away behind other stuff. That's been replaced and it sounds better now.

BUT, AS ALWAYS, WE HAVE A NEW PROBLEM!

4. This engine had very little blow-by when it was on the previous vehicle, I'm pretty sure opening the oil filler cap when it was running didn't previously splatter oil in the vicinity, and I think there's some exhaust/combustion gas coming it. It sounds like an exhaust!

I've checked the main breather hose (which has the Air Intake Temp sensor on it) and cleared that out. I've also removed and cleaned the EGR valve etc. Still the same. So I did a compression test:

- my gauge runs out at 20 bar (it's for petrols...) but looking at where the needle goes after 5 cycles each cylinder is getting 25-27 bar (cold). There's no meaningful difference across the cylinders from what I can tell.

I'm starting to run out of ideas!

Cheers,
J
1. AIT is #8200833248 ................. is that what is fitted? - what is the reported AIT when engine cold first thing in the morning and also when near normal operating temp on the dash temp gauge?
2. IMO there must be no doubt about this - spray the area with clutch and brake cleaner, wash it down with engine cleaner, dry it with a rag/paper and if you can compressed air from a compressor line - make sure its clean and dry. Take a drive till engine hot and see if it stays like that.
4. They can and will/do sound like that - I'd say forget about this for now.

Whats is the actual problem you now chasing?
Is the thing driving normally with no MIL on the dash?
What scanner are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Thanks for the reply LvR,

Actual problem being chased was the smoke coming from the front of the engine. Couldn't actually tell where it was coming from, but I think it was probably the injector that had the damaged seat. The engine is very clean and there's nothing obvious (diesel, oil etc) leaking from any of the injector sites even after an hour or so of running/driving.

Smoke amounts increased with revs, and often didn't start until engine had warned up, but after recutting the seat and new washer I think it might be sorted. It was obvious before. My only concern was when removing the Glow Plugs to do the compression test, the glow plug from that cylinder (which was installed after the seat was cut) had a layer of carbon on it, the others did not, so I'm not sure if the issue is solved. 🤔

The Air Intake Sensor is indeed #8200833248. I don't have a reader that tells me the data from the sensor unfortunately, I'm using Carista OBD which I bought for my car (Audi A6) but it's far less useful on the older Kangoo. There's no MIL but it does register as a fault code every time it's driven even after clearing it.

The blow-by does concern me but I see from the forum it's a common issue. I can't help but think I'll end up with oil leaks though, it seems like a lot of pressure compared to my Audi or my old Ford Focus (which had 180k miles) and I'm sure this engine didn't blow like that before the engine swap. I moved the 82bhp turbo and Delphi injectors across as this block originally had the 65bhp turbo on it, that's the only thing I can think that's changed. If it's genuinely a normal thing for these engines to do then that's okay but it doesn't seem right. :LOL:

Cheers,
J
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Just tested both AIT sensors: both reading 2.9kohm at garage temperature (~17 C)b and resistance reduces nicely with temp increase. So the sensors appear to be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Okay I'm going to ignore the AIT issue because it's a Renault and I don't believe there is actually anything wrong with it. There's a new sensor on there, that'll do.

The smoke seems to have stopped so that's good. Will just keep an eye on that. I'll put the carboned up glow plug down to just the fact it's now used.

I've just put the car up on front ramps to make sure it's all ***** and spam, since the speed sensor needed changing (the needle wobbles on the dash, didn't do that before!). It's now sprung it's first oil leak whilst driving up onto the ramp.

The oil leak is from the Turbo Oil Return pipe at the sump end! Any idea why this would suddenly happen? Is it the angle that the vehicle is at? It's been driven around since the engine change for a while and has been dry as a bone...

I can only assume it's the crank case pressure.

I think at this point it might be reasonable to fill the car footwells with concrete and drive it into the sea... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 

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Technical Supremo.
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The oil leak is from the Turbo Oil Return pipe at the sump end!
I can only assume it's the crank case pressure.
Its NOT crankcase pressure IMO - Only one way to sort this - redo the plumbing and seals involved till no leak.

As for the IAT - if you are not using a proper Renault speaking scanner ignore that on a generic scanner that only read EOBD PIDs .......... you are wasting your time.
 
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