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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know if it is possible to fit a 1995cc J5R or a 2165cc J7T petrol engine into my 1990 Renault Rimini T1100 Trafic Autosleeper campervan to replace the existing 1721cc F1N petrol engine with front wheel drive, to give more power.

I believe the 1995 cc J5R and the 2165 cc J7T petrol engines were fitted with either front or rear wheel drive after 1991 in the Renault Trafic.

Any information would be much appreciated.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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There's heaps of room in the engine bay of these old Trafics ... reckon you could fit just about anything in theory. Guess the main points for consideration are (a) will the engine mate with the gearbox or need an adapter plate (b) a modified exhaust system (c) if the new engine is Fuel Injected you'll need to modify the wiring loom (d) will you need another Electronic Ignition Module to suit the new engine? (e) are you living in an area with Low Emission Zone charges?

Hope you'll join the gang for more campervan conversation on the Campervan Chat thread

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=355097&highlight=campervan+chat
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Renoir White,

Thanks for your quick response to my query.

What I am trying to find out is whether the larger Renault 1995cc J5R or the 2165cc J7T Renault petrol engines will replace my existing 1721ccF1N petrol engine currently in my 1990 Renault Rimini campervan.

I believe these 2 engines were fitted in the Renault Trafic after 1990.

I am hoping there is someone who has already done this and can give me some feedback as to what is involved.

Cheers.

canjayar
 

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According to the workshop manual, there are 10 different gearboxes, and I know that a 1647 A1M doesn't fit the same one as a 1721 F1N for example. So, although I haven't done it, I'd say the answer is no, the engine probably won't fit. It might, but it'd be a gamble.

See this thread: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68453

But, if you had the whole van, I'm sure the engine, gearbox, mountings, radiator, wiring etc. could be transplanted. Probably wouldn't be too much hassle. I don't think it's got a different bulkhead like the diesel. That would be hard.

First, though, make sure it's working as it should. A good F1N isn't much less powerful than either of the bigger engines, and it's loads better on fuel.

Firstly, make sure you're getting full throttle pedal travel. Sounds obvious, but there's very little reserve travel. Tighten the cable at the carb to the tightest it'll go without opening the throttle. Also, Autosleepers had a habit of putting very thick carpet under the pedal. Worth a look.

Which engine is it? F1N 720, 722 or 724? 724 runs more advance and makes more power than the other two. The number is on the engine plate, on the right hand side as you look at it. If it's a 720 or 722 it should have an RE235 ignition unit; a 724 runs an RE260. If you could find one...

Check the vacuum advance is working - with it warmed up and ticking over, fold the vacuum advance pipe between your finger and thumb to block it and pull it off the ignition unit. The engine should slow down or stall. If it doesn't then the vacuum advance is broken - that makes it feel a lot slower.

Check or maybe just change the ignition pickup. It's on the flywheel, behind the cover inside the van. Yours is post '88 so it's easy to get, although the later one fits the earlier vans anyway.

Mines a bit quicker because I've put an RE234 unit on off a Renault 11, but not sure I'd recommend it. In case you hole a piston :)

According to the Renault 5 turbo people, if you reverse the pickup wires you get 3 more degrees of advance. No idea if that works though.

if you really want another engine, you'd maybe be better off with one of the F2x engines which should be a straight swap. Perhaps the F2N 722 or 723 out of the 21 - claimed 90 bhp, or even the F2N 770 from the Clio which claims 92 bhp. If you could find one. Obviously you'd need the ignition unit and carb. They should all be carb; that's what the '2' means - twin choke carb. Apparently.

Can't guarantee any of those would fit mind you, but it's the same block so it should. The 1.9 DTi (F9Q) is the same block too, but I think that would be more of a job.

So that'll help. Not.

Cheers,
Richard.

P.S. I'd say: You'll get used to it. They're all slow.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Firstly, make sure you're getting full throttle pedal travel. Also, Autosleepers had a habit of putting very thick carpet under the pedal.
Also my throttle pedal catches on the inner wheel arch/Renault floor liner. I'm thinking of adding an extension to the throttle pedal to improve clearance and make the throttle to brake pedal foot movement more comfortable.

if you really want another engine, you'd maybe be better off with one of the F2x engines
Good point. Don't forget the Trafic is a commercial van so the engine camshaft & timing is set more for load pulling torque than speedy bhp. As the camper should carry less weight than a fully laden panel van then a car engine set up may be the more performance option.

Also canjayar, what kind of travelling & load do you intend to do or carry? My van gearbox is very low geared so more power won't necessarily mean a lot more 'go'. If your planning on going up and down mountains then more power may be handy.

Must admit my van doesn't drive as well as the Mk3 & Mk4 Transits I use to drive for work.
Maybe a change of make might be a more practical option if you can sell & buy for similar money.

Whatever decision you come to with your project idea it'll be great to hear about your progress or outcomes of any mods.
.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for your reply Renoir White.

I have made sure that I am getting full throttle.

The F2X engine you mention, is it a Renault engine and what cc is it?

Last summer touring in the Picos mountains in Northern Spain, I found that you lost revs easily and had to get down the gear box. I don't think this 1721cc engine is powerful enough for my camper when loaded for holidays, i.e. slightly later Trafic campers had larger engines.

Regrds.

Canjayar
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi Richard,
.
Thanks for your reply.

I have made sure that I have full throttle.

What vehicle is the F2X engine out of?

How long have you had the RE234 unit out of a Renault 11 in your camper? I take it you have had no problems i.e. causing a hole in the piston.

Regards.

Canjayar
 

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Actually I've been looking at my list of Renault engines and the x in F2x always seems to be N, meaning that there are no F2 Variants (SOHC, twin-choke carb) other than 1721cc. Lots of F3P (1794cc) variants, but they're single point injection, so harder to adapt.

The Wikipedia article is quite helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_F-Type_engine but if you really want the full list then PM me your email address and I'll send it to you. Wikipedia actually lists an F2R for the 21 (1965cc) but my spreadsheet doesn't include it.

Broadly though, Renault 11 and 21 and a few early Clios. But be aware that some R11 engines in particular are not much more powerful than the Trafic engine. I reckon though, that any Renault engine with a carburettor will be hard to find now, although you never know.

Also, I reckon the radiator's barely big enough. My Fiat Panda has one almost as big. There seems to be room for a bigger one though.

It isn't only later Trafic campers that had larger engines, although the 2.1 (J7T) is a slightly later addition but offered from '89 (front end restyle) in vans; campers tend to be a year old model when they're sold. Certainly the 2 litre J5R is listed from '86, and I know Richard Holdsworth offered them as an option. Also, the F1N was available right up until the end of production apparently, although I doubt many people wanted it in '97.

At least it's not the C1J (847) engine; that's 1397cc and 48bhp,and also made well into the 90s. They didn't put the fifth gear in the box for that one.

I've had the RE234 on since the beginning of this summer, and no problems so far. Touch wood...
 

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I should say - I haven't tried any of this (except the ignition unit), so I can't guarantee that any of these engines will fit. But they should do, and if you can get a look first then you should be able to tell.

Another thing I've thought of - I can't imagine that there are any block differences between an F1N and an F2N, and the F1N runs 9.25:1 compression which is pretty high for the era. It's a flat head with the combustion chambers in the piston crown, so the pistons are how the CR is set. So, how about a camshaft, inlet manifold, carb and ignition unit from an F2N? You'd think that'd be the same thing really. Maybe the exhaust manifold is different, but if it is you're going to have to adapt it to the van exhaust or use the van manifold.

Not really relevant, but: I once had an Amigo camper built on the tiny Fiat 900T rear-engined van. The previous owner had put the engine out of an 850 sport coupé in it, which is the same block but 53bhp instead of 35, with an alloy sump, lumpy cams and a cute little twin-choke Holley carb. It also had the gearbox out of an 850 saloon, for the higher final drive ratio. It was pretty undriveable really - far too peaky - but by making an adaptor for the remote van air filter and replacing the 4-branch exhaust manifold with the cast one from the van engine it was loads better. Still much more powerful than standard but perfectly tractable and would cruise at 70 when the standard van can only make just over 60 flat out. We drove that over the Alps. Over, not through the tunnel. Needed to keep the revs up though...
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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.....: I once had an Amigo camper built on the tiny Fiat 900T rear-engined van.
I've always wanted one of these, they are so cute, but by the time I thought about it they had all disappeared from the road. I heard the engine mountings use to rot out? I once had a Strada and the rust caused chassis rot on that car so I had to scrap it ... shame as it was a brilliant car otherwise.
 

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I've always wanted one of these, they are so cute, but by the time I thought about it they had all disappeared from the road. I heard the engine mountings use to rot out? I once had a Strada and the rust caused chassis rot on that car so I had to scrap it ... shame as it was a brilliant car otherwise.
It was a great little van, but flawed. Lovely to drive (once I'd sorted the steering and brakes), really comfortable and quiet because of the rear engine. Very marginal cooling system though; really needed the radiator taking out every year or two to clean the fins, or it would overheat at any speed above 50 or so. And the rust...



That's not a Renault, obviously, so here's one, the 1976 Estafette we had in France, parked here by the harbour in Kenmare, Co. Kerry:



Sorry for hijacking the thread :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Richard,

Thanks for your latest reply.

I am thinking of fitting the RE234. Can you give me more information on the RE234 and also what is involved in fitting this. Is it something I could do myself?

It looks as though I could source one out of a Renault R9, R21, R19. Clio or R5 Super 5. Is this the case or would it need to be a Renault R21,1986 to 1995.

My email address is: [email protected]

Perhaps you could send me a photo of your RE234 fitted.

Regards.

Canjayar.
 

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I've sent you an email - the (French language!) ignition manual gives the definitive answer. It's just numbers so the language isn't a bit deal. Also, look down the list of advance curves - there may be one which will do just as well. Really, you need to find an ignition unit for sale and then look it up.

RE234 just refers to the ignition curve, physically the unit is identical. So it's just a matter of finding it (on the bulkead, above the engine) and swapping it. No point in a picture really, it looks just the same apart from having RE234 rather than RE235 written on it.

Before you do it though, look at the number on yours. If it's RE235 then it should make quite a lot of difference but if it's RE260 then I wouldn't think it's worth it.

You can earth the centre pin of the unused connector (you'll see when you take it out), which retards the ignition a little for unleaded (but not on all of them!). If you can get a unit with the wiring still attached then you can modify the centre connector to fit and earth it to the same place. Again, can't really explain but you'll see - the pictures in MR-17 will help.

If you can't find the ignition unit then let me know and I'll take a picture, although I'm sure I've seen one on here somewhere. Renoir White? Did you put one up?
 

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If you can't find the ignition unit then let me know and I'll take a picture, although I'm sure I've seen one on here somewhere. Renoir White? Did you put one up?
Here's a pic of mine. Hope it shows enough detail.
 

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Good man, thanks. You can clearly see 'RE260' written on the left-hand side of it too.

I'd been fixing a Bongo with burnt-out wiring (not mine - a mate who couldn't get anyone else to look at it) and didn't fancy getting under another bonnet last night.

Back to the Bongo then...
 

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Good man, thanks. You can clearly see 'RE260' written on the left-hand side of it too.

I'd been fixing a Bongo with burnt-out wiring (not mine - a mate who couldn't get anyone else to look at it) and didn't fancy getting under another bonnet last night.

Back to the Bongo then...
Please let me know what you think of the Bongo Richard as after snowballs had its day that is one van I might just be looking for.

Back to RW`s photo do I remove all them bolts I can see to get at the coil?

I wish I had not bothered to remove the wiper motor to paint the front pannel between the bonnet and the windscreen, what a struggle to get the spindels back through the gromets, well it was till I remembered the old soft soap trick:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for your email. I have checked mine and it is a RE235 and have been busy all day on the laptop trying to locate a RE234. No luck up to now.

Going to visit a scrapyard tomorrow.

Were the Renault 5, Clio, 9 and 11 available from 1983 to 2000 with the RE234 fitted?

I have sent an email to the Renault Owner Club as they have a massive list of spares. No reply as yet.

Thanks again.

Canjayar
 

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Thanks Renoir White for the picture. I have printed it off and it is very clear. Mine is the RE235 and up to now no chance of locating a RE234.

Will keep you updated on any progress.

Canjayar
 

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Please let me know what you think of the Bongo Richard as after snowballs had its day that is one van I might just be looking for.

Back to RW`s photo do I remove all them bolts I can see to get at the coil?

I wish I had not bothered to remove the wiper motor to paint the front pannel between the bonnet and the windscreen, what a struggle to get the spindels back through the gromets, well it was till I remembered the old soft soap trick:cool:
Fixings are here:


The top bolt is hidden behind that plate, but it's easy enough to get out. Undo those two fixings, unplug the two plugs on the right-hand end, the HT lead and the vacuum pipe and it'll wiggle out. Watch for the suppression capacitor under the top bolt. With the unit on the bench it should be easy to get the coil off.

Bongo: I quite like it, although it's much more a camper van than a motorhome. The Autosleeper has got proper cupboards, plumbing, heating etc. The Bongo is much more like an old-fashioned VW camper; a lot less room inside. Lifting roof is nice though, although why it needs to be electric I don't know.

One thing about it though - it had been standing for a year, uncared for because nobody wanted to fix it. Once I'd fixed all the burnt-out wiring, I put on an old battery which I'd taken off the Alfa because it was struggling to start it, turned the key and it went. Just like that - like it had been standing no more than a week. Amazing.

Still not sure I'd have one though.
 

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Thanks for your email. I have checked mine and it is a RE235 and have been busy all day on the laptop trying to locate a RE234. No luck up to now.

Going to visit a scrapyard tomorrow.

Were the Renault 5, Clio, 9 and 11 available from 1983 to 2000 with the RE234 fitted?

I have sent an email to the Renault Owner Club as they have a massive list of spares. No reply as yet.

Thanks again.

Canjayar
I doubt to 2000, because by then I think everything had fuel injection, and the ignition is controlled by the ECU. But otherwise, no way to tell, there are loads of different variants and the ignition may well have been changed anyway. Preferably you want one off a 1.7 F-type engine - you'll be able to tell because they look the same as the one in the van but sideways.

Apart from that you'll just have to look and see - if you print out the list of all the units then you might find one which isn't an RE234 but has a similar advance curve. If you do get one, remember to get the wiring too.

Good luck.
 
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