[Mk2 MASTER]

Hi all, hoping someone can give me some advice or pointers.. I have a 1998 MK2 Renault Master T35 2.8 DTI van, with around 130k on the clock, since I have had the van I have driven to the south of France a few times and it hasn't missed a beat... however it's always juddered, banged and kangarood, terribly when reversing .. and recently seems to have become much worse requiring me to up the revs and slip the clutch to get it to move .. this seems worse when teversing at low speed... if I dump the clutch and reverse at high speed the issue seems to not be so obvious.. going forward in 1st, 2nd gear seems fine (although occasionally pops out of 1st gear .. however this seems to have cured itself since I bench blead the clutch hydraulic system) I have read that the gearboxes on these things are prone to issues and just wondered if this is a common issue with these or anyone had any opinions on if the reverse issue is more likely to be the gearbox or clutch .. ?... the other thing I have noticed is that I THINK that the top engine mounts could be worn as if I grab the engine with one hand and shake it there isn't any clunking but I can move the engine around a bout a centimeter in all directions .. I'm no mechanic but would expect that this amount of movenment by hand isn't normal.. I was wondering if the engine mounts might be causing an issue with alignment in the drive train and possibly causing the juddering ... again just speculation as I'm a DIY'er... any ifo would be great as I'd love to keep this old van alive as its in great shape .. but fear a clutch / gearbox change rebuild might be an uneconomical repair ? Thank you for reading this far!

 

[LvR]

Engine and gearbox mounts need replacement imo .................

 

[Renoir White]

My first thought was gearbox mount.

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

Thanks for the super quick replys chaps, its such a tidy van for the year as only had light use on a fruit farm.. I bought it for £650 at the beginning of lockdown to go back and forwards to France as i needed to move a load of furniture and hire vans were crazy money.. , its been so good i decided not to sell it and have turned it into a camper..

i thought i might be way off track thinking that the mounts might be the cause... but that's positive, i guess that's the easiest and cheapest thing to try first isn't it.... .. I have ordered a pair of mounts!.. and will replace them both this week, I'm guessing i shouldn't be able to move the engine at all by hand if the mounts were ok.. ? thanks again!..

i'll post a pic as everyone likes pictures!

 

[Dancingdad]

I have ordered a pair of mounts!..

And the third....?

Dunno which two you have ordered but the rear lower engine mount is often the culprit.
If you can rock forward and back the engine by hand, IMO certain it's this one.
If side to side or twisting, one of the top mounts.

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

thanks Dancingdad, its the two upper ones i have ordered as i replaced the rear when i first bought the van as i noticed that the rubber was totally cracked up and shot on the one that was on there, the movement is mostly side to side and twisting, again really appreciate your reply !

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

Hmm... so it took a while to get the parts due to a non delivery from an ebay seller... but received the mounts today... one of the gearbox side mounting bolts snapped clean off so i have had to remove the mounting bracket from the body to try and drill it out . so I'm a bolt down...does anyone happen to know the correct size replacement bolt?. i think its marked 8 8 on the top (its a bit rusty ) and is a flange head bolt with about a 20mm long thread?.. i cant seem to find one by searching the web for "Renault master engine mount bolts" any help would be great

 

[Dancingdad]

8.8 refers to the grade of steel...high tensile, look for replacement at that grade or 10.9 which is higher tensile, don't buy a mild steel bolt.
They will be a standard size look for that not Renault Bolt.

Size...measure the diameter..... if (for example) it is 8mm that would likely be an M8, 10mm likely to be M10
Only question is pitch but suspect it would be a standard metric pitch so buying an M8/M10/M12 whatever would likely work.
From one of the other pins, you can measure pitch.... count 10 threads and measure....15mm would make it a 1.5 pitch, 12.5mm would make it a 1.25 pitch.

Or pop into B&Q with one of the bolts and compare...they usually have a range of sizes....but may not be high tensile so be wary if buying.
Local Fastener supplier (google your area) or online is other option..

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

wow that was a super fast reply!... that's a huge help and great info , thanks!.. i think i have found something that looks about right .. M10 20mm M6 M8 M10 M12 M14 FLANGED HEXAGON HEAD BOLT HEX SCREW AND / OR NUTS GEOMET KAF | eBay will let you know how it works out!

thanks again DancingDad..!..

 

[Dancingdad]

They seem to know what they are offering and lots of pretty diagrams.... which should mean you can identify.

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

you know when sometimes you wish you'd never started something ... manged to re-drill and re-tap the gearbox side and have that all back together!.. yipee..

went to tackle the Driver side mount and the replacement i have seems different ... the one i removed has 3 mounting holes (part number 7 700 308 750) the one i have received as a replacement... whilst similar has 4 mounting holes and the locating pins on the mounting plate are about 2mm closer together...

if i search for the part number i cant find any that look the same as mine....

any advise would be great, do you think theoretically it would be possible to open the mount up and just switch the rubber core as the body of the mount looks the same ..

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

strange as the part number on mine is definitely 7 700 308 750 but every catalogue i can find shows a 4 hole fixing ...

 

[Renoir White]

Looks very similar. If the holes in the plate are un-threaded could you elongate the holes with a round file to suit if we are only talking 2mm adjustment. Don't think that would compromise the strength of the plate?

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

Renoir , your bang on the money...

i made a cardboard template of the footprint of the old one and overlaid the new and all line up apart from the locating stud,

the stud was so close to the old hole that elongating the hole would have defiantly been an option , however i couldn't get a drill or file in without removing the break servo and a load of piping, and i thought that the stud wouldn't really give much in the way of preventing movement in an elongated hole... so instead i opted for trimming off the stud.. not sure if thats the right choice but its worked !..

have some pics to show the difference in case it helps anyone else!..


now to go and put the rest back together!

 

[Mk2 MASTER]

All back together and the reverse kangaroo / judder seems to have gone completely!!.. amazing I was expecting a new clutch ...
Only thing now is that the engine noise seems to be much louder in the cab and I can feel the engine vibration through the van .. im guessing this isnt normal so I'll have to re check my alignment on the engine mounts

Just want to also thank everyone that contributed to this thread, everyone's been super helpful.

 

[Dancingdad]

Only thing now is that the engine noise seems to be much louder in the cab and I can feel the engine vibration through the van

Double check what you have done but don't forget that you have gone from spongy mounts that not only let the engine float about (causing the judder) but also soaked up a lot of vibration....to new solid mounts.

On checking, make sure that the rubber is truly sandwiched between metal parts and being compressed.
Sometimes you can end up with loose fit or metal to metal and need a couple of washers/adjustment