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Discussion Starter #1
As per the title, 2001 1.4 scenic, the clutch cable broke on Monday, and I've been told that prior to that, the clutch release bearing had become noisy.

So, I fitted a new clutch cable, which was not a fun job, given the routing, and having fitted it, I was less than happy on starting the car, as the release was noisy, rattling badly, and the clutch wasn't working correctly, it was still grabbing, so it was impossible to put the car into gear with the engine running. If it was started in gear, it was grabbing enough to defeat the synchromesh if it was put back into neutral, but it wasn't gripping enough to drive

So, the decision was that the clutch had to come out and be replaced. It's taken a while to get to the point where it was possible to split the gearbox from the engine, not helped by a few bolts that would not come out, the biggest problems being the larger sub frame mounting bolts, they were a problem.

Now the fun starts. Having split the gearbox from the engine, so we could see in to the release bearing, it was clear that the release bearing had destroyed itself.

That wasn't altogether unexpected, given the noise it was making. What wasn't expected what that is had also done other damage, there is a sleeve that surrounds the gearbox input shaft, which the release bearing slides on, and it had managed to damage that in two ways, the first is that it had worn through the sleeve and cut through it about 1 Cm from the end, and the second is that it had also managed to break the sleeve at the point where it is anchored in the front housing of the gearbox, so it came out of the gearbox in 2 pieces, and there appears to be a small piece of it left in the front cover of the gearbox.

So, has anyone else had this happen, and if they have, how did you get round the problem. I spoke to the local Renault agents, and they sent over a couple of screen dumps from the parts catalog, which were significantly unhelpful. as they don't show the sleeve I need, and didn't have any part numbers on them, so we couldn't identify anything useful.

I've looked at a gearbox from a 05 clio, (local scrapyard) which appears to have the same system for the sleeve, what I'd like to find out is if this sleeve can be replaced as a separate item, if there is a Renault part number for it, and is this a "known" issue, or have we just been incredibly unlucky with this car this year.

If the worst comes to the worst, there's a 1.4 Megane outside the workshop that's being scrapped, so an option will be to take the gearbox from that, and either move the tube over, put the good front cover onto the original gearbox, or just put the entire gearbox from the Megane into the Scenic, but I would need to be sure that there are no differences between them before going down that route, as there's a lot of work to get the gearbox out of the Megane, my main concern would be that the gear ratios or final drive ratio might be different, which would make for hassles.

Comments or thoughts from anyone with experience of this would be appreciated.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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First question, does the sleeve bolt on, if yes, then thats answered your question,
Go get it off other box.
It is common on pug and citreon, in fact so common, most motor factors stock them,
As regards price from main agents for pug, its 12£
And because I have had a good day, here you go.
Renault Gearbox Bell Housing Sleeve 7700859126 | eBay

This is what it is called
 

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Just had a look at a JB3 gearbox from a Megane and it don't have bolts.
Might be this box fitted....unfortunately..

Looks like JB3 boxes are a combined sleeve, bearing and seal which are press fitted from inside the box.

Is each item nubered on your drawings.?

Can you get the gearbox codes from each gearbox, ie JB3 563
Might be able to get the final drive ratios for you.
What year is the megane?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys, it's not bolt on, hence the question.

I will look at the box tomorrow to get the details, (I hope the labels or marks are still there), and try and make some more sense of the drawings, they were a screen capture of the parts image, so not the easiest to work with.

Thanks for the fast replies.
 

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The stamped number on a JB3 is about 4 inches below the filler plug and 4 inches towards the outer end on the gearbox.

Might also be a sticker on the tin plate end cover if you can see it..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks, it's looking like there will be a part for this, though I may be frightened by the price, I found a Russian version of the parts guide a few minutes ago, and from that, I think the sleeve is part of the front bearing, I won't have a valid part number until I get the right gearbox that's in the vehicle, as there seem to be about 10 possibles, depending on the specific model and the diameter of the bearing, there's more than one size by the look of it.

The diagrams are not exactly intuitive, in as much as the bearing (part No 2 on the one I found) is shown on the inside of the box, but at least I think I'm making progress, I'd rather get a new bearing with sleeve, that has to be easier than having to strip a box out of another vehicle to get the part I need!

Hopefully, tomorrow will bear some more useful fruit, it would be nice to get a good result on this, it's my daughter's car, and for all sorts of reasons, there's no way to replace it right now.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Quick update, I never got near the Scenic today, the garage it's at was mad busy, so I was involved in other things for them, which is only fair as the Scenic is blocking one of the ramps. The plan I am being steered towards is to use the box from the scrap Megane that's outside the door, as that is likely to be quicker than getting the correct bearing, and stripping the box to fit it, the box from the Megane should be a straight swap, even though we have to get it out, (which needs a second ramp, so not a weekday job).

There are indeed two different size bearings for this box, they are part no 2, Bearing C2 on the drawing of the covers, the second page of parts from the catalog, one of them is 40mm, the other 46mm, there's an X on the parts diagram to indicate the dimension that determines which one is needed, and the one price I saw on line was 3 figures, which makes the used box worth considering.

At least it won't take as long to strip the Megane as it did to strip the Scenic, in that as the engine is scrap, I don't have to be quite so careful removing some of the stuff around the engine.



I will be keeping the old box, on the basis that it will only need the main bearing replacing to put it back in again if there are any issues with the Megane box, we've no reason to suspect problems, the scrap car came to us with no injectors, so that's a fairly clear indication of why it was scrapped, it got taken in to the garage to be a donor for another Megane that had a fire behind the air intake, and destroyed the bonnet and scuttle.

We were joking last night, the garage owner keeps pulling my leg about the possible interest I have in getting a Grand Scenic, ( He just keeps saying "It's a RENAULT", with feeling) and I said to him, by the time I've finished this, I might just as well get one, as I'm going to be well familiar with Scenic's at the end of this job, this is the same Scenic that I had hassles with earlier in the year after a cam belt swap, so it has to be kept going for a while if we can, it's been a money pit over the last 9 months, so the option to chop it is just not there yet, and having to do this clutch is not helping that any.

Hope to have an update at the weekend, while I might get the Megane on a ramp tomorrow, I'm not expecting to get very far with it until Saturday Morning.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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I would have gone for another box personally,,,
Its easier, also clutch and thrust is there so these can be used,,
As you have intimated things not good for different reasons, but being able to do the labour, if the used clutch lasts 6 months, its only another days labour, and you dont pay yourself, other people pay you.
But again I am frugal when it comes to spending on my own car
 

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If you have an engine hoist, it might be as easy just lifting out the engine/gearbox as a full unit.
Don't have to disturb the subframe that way. Still have to disconnect the driveshafts of course.
I did have the timing belt covers off and crank pulley off which gave more wiggle room when I did it but it might still come out with those in place.

Just another option to consider.:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Engine and box out upwards is indeed is an option, given that the bar to keep the engine up in place while the box is off is on the scenic, and there is a chain hoist that could be used to get it out.

I have been thinking that the complete engine and box out the top will be easier, given that a number of things are off the engine already due to the other job they were used for. The drive shafts are not a massive issue, as the bottom ball joints come off with the removal of the nuts, so the only tricky joint is the track rod end, and they both fell out on the Scenic, so hopefully the same on the Megane.

I will be changing the complete clutch, pressure plate and driven plate, even though it was the release bearing that broke up, something upset the old release bearing, so I'm not taking any chances.

Appreciate the comments, they all help.
 

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Keep any useful looking parts off the Megane while you have it there....if you can..
You never know what you'll need in the future and plenty of parts are interchangeable with the Scenic.

Not seen anyone on the forum have issues with that bearing guide before so it's most likely just due to the bearing collapse.
It's even possible that the bearing wasn't clipped into place on the cltch fork properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Keep any useful looking parts off the Megane while you have it there....if you can..
You never know what you'll need in the future and plenty of parts are interchangeable with the Scenic.

Not seen anyone on the forum have issues with that bearing guide before so it's most likely just due to the bearing collapse.
It's even possible that the bearing wasn't clipped into place on the clutch fork properly.
That's indeed possible, the clutch was replaced 6 or 7 years ago, after the pressure plate broke up, I do wonder if it was damaged then, but no way to know.

I will indeed be trying to store some of the Megane bits, drive shafts are a certain, and maybe a few other things if I can get them off and still be able to move it afterwards, it needs to go for scrap fairly soon.

Thanks
 

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I've come across this a couple of times, once on an early kangoo, (only the end had broken and we got away with not changing it) and once on a R5 gt turbo (basically the same design. On the GT turbo the sleeve was completely broken away as is yours. It is fitted by partially dismantling the gearbox and tapping in. The part should be available and is a standalone part which is comparatively inexpensive. If you had a replacement box available I would say fit it, but as you have to remove it from the other vehicle I would repair yours. It's not that difficult to take apart and you don't need special tools. You can take out the shafts complete and drive the old bit out with a hammer and socket. Release bearing failure is not uncommon on this range of gearboxes, basically because the bearing is quite small. Whenever they start to make a noise it's best to change them immeadiately to avoid the damage you describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, we made some progress today. I was concerned that there would be quite some time taken to get the box out of the scrap Megane, but with 2 of us on it, a number of things like the exhaust already disconnected, and some of the other things already recently removed, and no great concern about how things like harnesses and hoses were dealt with, we started taking engine and gearbox out at about 4, and by 6, the gearbox was off the engine, and the remains of the Megane had been moved out of the workshop again, so tomorrows task is to put the Scenic back together, the only issue I have to deal with is one of the main subframe bolts had to be cut, as the bolt was well seized into the subframe mount (the only one of the 4 that's rubber bush based), but I have a plan of how to deal with it if the hydraulic press won't remove the remains, which have been soaking in penetrating fluid for 2 days.

I've attached some pictures that will indicate to those who are interested just how badly the release bearing broke up, as well as destroying itself, it also managed to destroy the pressure plate fingers, and the sleeve, there's 2 pictures of a gearbox, one is the one removed from the Scenic, the other is as it should be, the Megane box, and the difference is clear. The release bearing is in 5 pieces, and the gearbox sleeve is in 3 pieces, one of which is still in the front cover of the box.

We were lucky, in as much as the Megane donor came in to help solve a different issue completely, so it was still there for the taking, if we'd had to go out for parts or a gearbox, it would have been a lot more expensive, realistically, it would not have been worth spending this sort of money on a 2001 car if the owner had to pay "retail" prices for the parts and labour, even with the crazy prices of cars in Ireland, the cost of repair would have been way beyond the value of the vehicle.

Fortunately for my daughter, it will cost a lot less than the retail price to do the job, so her car will get to live for another while.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You are a brave man, charging your daughter, that is
Who will pick your retirement/care home.
Think ahead, just think ahead:grin2:

>:)>:)>:)>:)>:) .....
I am thinking ahead, :wink2:the price she pays me will be the trade price of the parts, with whatever discount I can pass on, so even though I'm spending quite some time at it, I won't be making anything at all, :grin2::grin2::grin2:, and that's effectively about as good as it gets.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Yes , but like me, you too, will have a great care package in place :grin2::grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
At last, it's on the way back to the owner, The Megane box went in to it yesterday, without too much pain, the biggest hassles were getting the gear lever linkage to align correctly, I'd dismantled it one way, and the other mechanic took it apart in a different place, so I had to set it all up again. Not sure it's completely right, I will check it after a few days, the new clutch needs to bed in first, it's not polished yet.

Had a hassle with the engine earth, the Megane uses a different earth point, so when I put the earth on, it wasn't the greatest contact so it wouldn't crank, but I worked that out fairly quickly, what took a few minutes longer to find was that we'd knocked the inertia switch at some stage, so when it was cranking, there was no fuel flow, until I reset the switch, at which point, the beast ran again!

When I stripped the old clutch, it was clear that if the release bearing hadn't failed, the clutch would have within a short time, the engine side was at the rivets on the driven plate, fortunately, it didn't score the flywheel, so not long before it started to slip.

Also had some hassles with the one subframe bolt that goes through a rubber bush mounting, it was well seized in, had to cut it to get the subframe off, and ended up taking the rubber bush out and having to use a serious hydraulic press to get the bolt out of the sleeve.

Not a fun job, but at least it's working again for now. Hopefully, it will get sold (or scrapped) before anything else breaks! I can always hope.
 
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