[bradley_w_2003]

First off I'm new here, so Hi all!

I've spent a heap of time searching threads, but can't find a solutions to my problems and think it may be one major thing causing all of the problems I've got.

So here goes...

I've recently bought a Clio Sport 1.2 16v 2001. Here's a break down of what I've had done so far and the problems I'm experiencing.

Work done:
Full Service (sparks changed, oil changed, air & oil filter changed)
Front Brake Pads & Disks replaced
Brake Fluid replaced
Auxiliary Belts replaced

Problems:
About 5 times now, after turning the car on, the revs fall, the electrical warning light comes on and the car stalls. Turning it all the way off and back on the car does the same, but giving it a few revs seems to sort the problem.

When using the clutch and 1st gear to move (parking etc.) the clutch seems to judder and make a sort of banging sound

Power steering randomly becomes heavier then lighter, as and when it chooses

When slowing down, pushing the clutch down and putting first gear in there is a whirring down noise that seems to come from the gearbox

A few things to note are that I few days ago I checked under the bonnet and noticed the air intake pipe was torn, and then I spotted it wasn't even connected to the engine. I've pushed it back in now and the pipe is being replaced tomorrow.
One of the wheel bearings seems to be humming and my garage have advised to leave it a little longer until it is louder so they can identify the bearing at fault.
When my brakes were first changed they were super responsive as I expected. Last night I had a car full of passengers and suddenly they became significantly less responsive and have remained the same since. I'm taking it back to the garage tomorrow to have this sorted!

I've also noticed that it seems to idle at different speeds. Sometimes 500, sometimes 1000.

Not sure if anyone has any ideas if there may be something major at fault causing these problems or if it's just lots of different things due to the age of the car.

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Pat.w]

Welcome to the forum

The clutch judder is pretty common, my wife's 1.2 Modus (Clio based) has been doing that for a number of years now. You'll get used to it, and find a way to drive around it

First gear is not a synchro mesh, so changing down it will sound different to the other gears. Of course I can't hear it so that is a bit of an assumption on my part.

I wouldn't worry too much about the air intake pipe, replace it when you can, but it won't cause you any major problems.

You may have a bubble in the hydraulics that has caused the change in feel on the brakes, but of course adding a lot more weight to the car will change the way it slows down. I would suggest getting the brakes bleed again to make sure.

Your idle speed and stalling are probably related. It's probably worth cleaning the TDC sensor, but also worth having a look at the electrical loom where it enters the ECU. There is a clamp around the loom that has been known to chaff through the insulation causing random electrical problems.

Not sure about the power steering, do you think its speed related?

 

[richiethefitter]

Hi, The 1.2 clios can suffer from allsorts of quite random running faults. Usually the TDC sensor will causes intermittant or total nonstart faults. I have found Coughing and spluttering is usually caused by NGK plugs being fitted instead of Renault one,Faults upstream O2 sensors. Faulty coil packs and the major one which was part of an OTS (customer comlaint rectification) was inlet and exaust valves sticking in the valve guides. Which Renault rectified by replacing the cylinder heads.... so suggest checking other stuff first.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Sorry for the delayed response, it's been a crazy couple of weeks. Here's where I'm at...

Had the air intake replaced, all is good.

Garage have told me the brakes were just bedding in and they seem to be right, I'm used to them again.

The first gear problem, I've resolved by... Not putting the car into first until I need it (stopped entirely or very slow)

Also, I've just got used to the clunky first gear when using the clutch to move, as well as the power steering. The steering is a bit of a funny quirk tbh. I've read somewhere that the power steering pump has a setting that is often set to 1 and should be 3, any ideas?

Bad news though. She's back in the garage. The problem with losing revs and the warning light coming on has stepped up to a whole new level. Now it happens when I'm driving. So far this is what's happened:

Start car, drive off, stop at junction: warning light and loses revs. I with rev it to about 3000 rpm and it sorts it out or leave it and it stalls.

Drive normally in 3rd and if I don't change up to fourth after about 30 seconds: warning light, car shakes a bit like missfire. If I stop it loses revs and stalls.

Drive in 5th at 60mph, brake: light often comes on but no real change to revs etc.

The other day I was driving at 50mph and the electric warning, battery and stop lights came on. I applied some gas and they all went off...


Really odd. The grave have rigged it up but say there are no error codes in it. I'm having the sparks replaced and I'm waiting for a price on a coil pack. If it's fair I'll have these done and start the process of elimination in price order, if they can't diagnose it ( sparks, coil pack, lambda, tdc, map, throttle body and wiring loom). Hopefully it's solved with a cheap fix. I'll keep this updated.

Any help in the meantime would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Well, back from the garage.

The mechanic seems pretty annoyed and said that they couldn't get the problem to occur and said changing the sparks was a waste of money...

Spark plugs have been changed however (£25) and he was right, still the same problem. Drive along, warning light comes on (this can be forced to happen by going about 40mph then slowing down to take a turn) if I stop the revs fall to the point of stalling/nearly stalling. Also turned it on outside the house and the same, revs fall, warning light...

I've had a look under the bonnet and have found that one of the wires that connects the MAP sensor the the loom has at some point snapped and has been replaced. The work looks good, and is taped securely but not sure if this is where the problem lies. I had planned to clean the MAP sensor, but once I'd disconnected the plug from it I didn't know which way to pull it to take it off! Any help on this appreciated.

The plan is to keep running the car as it is, if it breaks down then bingo, I'll call out roadside and I can't be told that there's no problems. If it doesn't I'm going to get it in with a Renault specialist near me to begin the expensive process of changing parts.

 

[hoochy]

hi bud if i was you i would take the map sensor off get the part number off it and make sure its the correct 1 for your car poss replace it if its showing dash lites /eml its gotta be storing a code maybe there scanner isnt picking up the codes some scanners dont try finding a garage with a clip scanner and get it on that for a diagnostic and tbh if your saying the wheel is making a humming they should find what 1 it is id change my garage if i was you:crazy:

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Any ideas how u get the MAP off mate? I've disconnected the plug that connects the loom to it, but not sure which direction to pull it to get it off. Cheers

 

[hoochy]

un sure mate never did 1 looks like its just a pull out here is a ebay link dont know if its the same 1 but it will give you a idea

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-Renau...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c589067ce

 

[bradley_w_2003]

cheers, looks like i need to pull it upwards after disconnecting the cable.


Here's a video of the fault, incase anyone can offer any tips on what's wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXeLMBe8UJo

 

[madnoel10]

Although it hard to tell from the video clip I get the impression the fuel mix is going too rich and the Lamda sesnor in the exhaust is detecting unburnt gases - hence the warning light.
After a few revs the gas mix in the exhaust is refreshed - hence the light goes out.
Judging for the erratic idle speed the engine wants to stall but the ECU then adjusts the throttle to compensate.
A faulty MAP sesnor tends tends to cause very poor acceleration or poor engine performance when under load such as when going up hill, etc.
It may be a temperature related problem so it may be worth checking the engine coolant and inlet air temp sensors.
No gaurantee this may be the problem but as said earlier it is hard to judge when not being able to see, hear or drive the car.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

thanks for the replys.

Well some more driving today and some more info. I parked the car today and the warning light came on and revs fell... So rather than fixing it, I just turned the car off. Once off, I could hear a ticking coming from behind the o/s headlamp. I've read this is the Charcoal canister and the solenoid is ticking?

Well anyway, when I turned the car back on, warning light and revs problem immediately. Reved the car, all clear, turned off and the ticking was gone.

Later on today I popped the lid and unplugged the MAP sensor. Upon doing so, the ticking noise started again from behind the O/S head lamp.

Soooo I'm guessing when the problem occurs, the revs fall and the light comes on, it's as good as when the MAP sensor is removed?

I'll order a replacement tonight and update on how it goes.

In the interim, any more advice is welcome.

Thanks again all.

 

[madnoel10]

Could be a faulty fuel cannister control valve. Try running the engine with the fuel cap removed and see of there is any difference.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Got home, removed and cleaned the MAP (some oil on the plug that goes into the engine) replugged it and went for a short run. Much better, but did get the light once.

I'm looking online for a replacement, but not sure which part I need. The part codes I have found are:
8200165185
8200105165

Any ideas which is correct?

Cheers.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

MAP Sensor ordered. Awaiting Delivery.

This evening my brother and I cleaned some of the earth straps but to no avail. Still as bad as ever.

He reckons whatever is causing the fault is making to mixture too rich, as when the problem occurred and I put some revs through it, so petrol came out of the exhaust.

This car is making me throughly miserable already!

 

[madnoel10]

MAP Sensor ordered. Awaiting Delivery.

This evening my brother and I cleaned some of the earth straps but to no avail. Still as bad as ever.

He reckons whatever is causing the fault is making to mixture too rich, as when the problem occurred and I put some revs through it, so petrol came out of the exhaust.

This car is making me throughly miserable already!

I think your brother may be correct - have you checked the engine coolant sensors, air inlet temp sensor and the ticking fuel recyling cannister may be clue.

Have you tried running the engine with the fuel cap removed?

 

[bradley_w_2003]

I haven't. Is it safe to drive without it or shall I just take it off and leave the engine to run to see if it happens? If it's safe to drive without it I'll give it a run tonight. Thank you.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Ok, so the new MAP Sensor arrives today. I've taken the old one out and had a look to see if it had any oil on it again and it has.
I had a look in the orrofice that it fits into and their is some visible oil in there. I understand this to be the Air Intake Manifold and presume there shouldn't be oil, just air! So before I replace the sensor and risk contaminating the new one, I'd like to clean out the oil. Can anyone advise how difficult a job it is to get into this area? If it isn't a nightmare, could you let me know how? Would this be documented in a Haynes? If so I'll grab one on the way home to save someone explaining.
I'm guessing too though that this leads to the throttle body and this may too be contaminated with oil now =( I guess this is a pretty big job and I could do with asking a garage to take this out to clean it?
Thanks again.
Brad.

 

[madnoel10]

Ah-Ha - the plot thickens.

Oil in the inlet manifold will cause rich running as I first suspected and giving the engine a rev temporiarly clears some of the oil and allows a bit more air in.

The mosty common cause for such on this engine is a faluty PCV valve jammed opened. I suggest you either clean or replace it. The PCV valve lives in the crankcase breather pipe going to the air inlet plumbing. After you've sorted the PCV aspect you'll need to partialy dismantle the inlet system for a good clean out. Start at the air filter and work your way along.

 

[bradley_w_2003]

Sorry for the massive delay in following this thread up.

Since having the Electronic Warning Light/Cutting out problem, I have replaced the MAP sensor, which seems to have stopped the problem occurring regularly. However, it does come back particularly on damp morning or if the car has been sat for a while.

I've rooted around and have found that under all of the tape wrapped around the wiring loom, someone has carried out a repair on a wire from the MAP sensor. My guess is the damp is getting into this and giving miss readings.

The problem occurs to little to care about now and when it does i just put my foot through the throttle and it solves it.

So if you have this problem, I'd say swap the MAP which is cheap, check your loom and hopefully it'll sort it for you.

Hope this helps.
Brad.