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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Hi

First post thanks for having me here.

I have a 2014 Clio IV RS, which has charging problems. The battery management system does not charge the battery high enough. I have now had 3 genuine Renault AGM batteries but the car is not stop start. On monitoring the voltage when driving along through the obd port, the voltage reads 11.6v even on a new battery. When I lift off the throttle I get 14.4v, if I am driving and it starts raining the wipers run slow due to low voltage. If I put the lights on I get a constant 14.4v everything works as normal the wipers run at normal speed. As I said I am on my 3rd battery, I have cleaned all the terminals and the earth's. I am now looking at the BMS module on the negative pole of the battery. Not sure how this works, I know I have 12.8v on one of the thin wires from the grey plug and 11.8v on the other without the engine running. If I run the engine with the grey plug disconnected I get a constant current of 13.8v as the BMS is not working with the plug disconnected, but this puts the spanner light on and check vehicle, which I accept as normal.

As I said I am not sure how this battery sensor works, do they breakdown and make the BMS think the battery is charged when it is not? Cutting the voltage but to 11.6v and not 12.5v

Everybody said French electrics, I'm hoping someone has an answer for me please.

Thanks go easy on me. 馃憤
 

Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Did you have these batteries tested?
Or has someone tested them and?
Have you had it diagnosed?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes Renault replaced the first one 3 years ago under warranty. It has been back to Renault back end of last year to have the battery tested and it came back OK. This is why I am asking about the module on the battery as my dealer can't find anything wrong. I know there was a recall on the Capturs for this very problem and an update was released but their is nothing for the Clio and I have had this checked at a couple of Renault dealers.
 

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My car reads 11.6V when accelerating and 14.8 on the overrun so your high and low values are correct. But you should be seeing around 13.5 at other times. At 11.6 it is basically letting the battery do all the electrical work without charge (alternator load), then piles it in when you are slowing down. It's hard work on the battery hence the new generation AGM. Did Renault ever check the BMS? I'm not sure how one would do this but if it is responding to the headlights but not the wipers I would agree with you that this a good starting point. Has the battery ever let you down and not started the car?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My car reads 11.6V when accelerating and 14.8 on the overrun so your high and low values are correct. But you should be seeing around 13.5 at other times. At 11.6 it is basically letting the battery do all the electrical work without charge (alternator load), then piles it in when you are slowing down. It's hard work on the battery hence the new generation AGM. Did Renault ever check the BMS? I'm not sure how one would do this but if it is responding to the headlights but not the wipers I would agree with you that this a good starting point. Has the battery ever let you down and not started the car?
My car reads 11.6V when accelerating and 14.8 on the overrun so your high and low values are correct. But you should be seeing around 13.5 at other times. At 11.6 it is basically letting the battery do all the electrical work without charge (alternator load), then piles it in when you are slowing down. It's hard work on the battery hence the new generation AGM. Did Renault ever check the BMS? I'm not sure how one would do this but if it is responding to the headlights but not the wipers I would agree with you that this a good starting point. Has the battery ever let you down and not started the car?
Hi

Thanks for your help, the first battery failed end of year 3.

If I run with the grey terminal off the BMS battery module on the battery the battery runs a constant 13.5v and the battery after sitting overnight is still at 12.85v

If I run with the plug connected the voltage varies but it is mostly below 12v, when I check the new battery In the morning it is down around 12.3v so the charge system is not outputting enough to keep the battery in a fully charged state. The 2 wires off the grey plug when I remove it both have voltage coming out. I ground the negative on the voltmeter, the red wire I get the same as the battery voltage the grey is 10.8v this morning? Any chance you could check yours please
 

Sexy at 71 super mod..
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AGM batteries never charge to full rate on the car and will only charge on the over run..this seems to apply to many cars whatever the manufacturer..on my Venga it should have been fitted with an AGM or flooded one but I have a normal Lead acid type and its far more stable than having an AGM on my car..beginning to believe that this "must use an AGM" is nothing but a load of bunkum and nothing more than another way to fill the suppliers pockets..the only way to charge an AGM is to connect it to the correct type of trickle charger and it will never charge to capacity when in daily service on a car..Renault/Kia/Hyundai whatever..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
AGM batteries never charge to full rate on the car and will only charge on the over run..this seems to apply to many cars whatever the manufacturer..on my Venga it should have been fitted with an AGM or flooded one but I have a normal Lead acid type and its far more stable than having an AGM on my car..beginning to believe that this "must use an AGM" is nothing but a load of bunkum and nothing more than another way to fill the suppliers pockets..the only way to charge an AGM is to connect it to the correct type of trickle charger and it will never charge to capacity when in daily service on a car..Renault/Kia/Hyundai whatever..
Without the BMS plug connected it is providing a full 13.5v and charges the battery to full and my wipers work at the proper speed. With the BMS plug connected the wipers run slow unless I put the lights on, which bumps the output up to 14.4v
 

Sexy at 71 super mod..
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Without the BMS plug connected it is providing a full 13.5v and charges the battery to full and my wipers work at the proper speed. With the BMS plug connected the wipers run slow unless I put the lights on, which bumps the output up to 14.4v
Well that speaks for its self..nothing to add and seems to me at least its the way to continue..would be worth giving a try for a time to see how it goes..I know I would..Guys on Kia forum were agast when I said it and there is one other member who thinks as I do and done the same..others just tow the kia line and quote the bible chapter and verse..
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well that speaks for its self..nothing to add and seems to me at least its the way to continue..would be worth giving a try for a time to see how it goes..I know I would..Guys on Kia forum were agast when I said it and there is one other member who thinks as I do and done the same..others just tow the kia line and quote the bible chapter and verse..
Problem is I have the management light on and check vehicle is displayed as well. I would prefer to fix the problem not work around it, I hate things not working properly and hate the spanner light being on as it is not small and check vehicle is across the dash as well.
 

Sexy at 71 super mod..
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Problem is I have the management light on and check vehicle is displayed as well. I would prefer to fix the problem not work around it, I hate things not working properly and hate the spanner light being on as it is not small and check vehicle is across the dash as well.
Ok didnt realise that so agree that this needs to be addressed..did this come up because of the BMS module and it being disconnected..do the dash lights go away when you reconnect it..
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok didnt realise that so agree that this needs to be addressed..did this come up because of the BMS module and it being disconnected..do the dash lights go away when you reconnect it..
Yes it does, because the PCM realises the BMS is not functioning. 馃憤 Connect it back up and the light and message both go out, no need to clear any fault codes as none register.
 

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Battery (EFB) showing 12.63V. Two wires at the grey plug 12.63 on the red and 11.4 on the brownish purple colour. Engine off. No idea how these work on the negative terminal. Mine is a stop-start. What is surprising me is why your battery cannot properly operate the wipers even when not charging.
 

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Phil knows what he is talking about but these BMS systems can charge up to 15V for short but repeated periods. I am not sure I would want a lead acid doing that.
 

Sexy at 71 super mod..
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Phil knows what he is talking about but these BMS systems can charge up to 15V for short but repeated periods. I am not sure I would want a lead acid doing that.
Mine has never passed 14.4 v..mind you its a kia and not a renault..never heard of any car charging to that rate and obviously a fault..15v WOW..my battery volts did show at 15v mind you on my multi meter when I first owned the ix20 and was charging at over 16v..turned out the battery in the multi meter was bu55ered..darn chinese sh1t battery didn't last no time at all just 2 years..hope the duracell last's longer.. 馃榿
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Battery (EFB) showing 12.63V. Two wires at the grey plug 12.63 on the red and 11.4 on the brownish purple colour. Engine off. No idea how these work on the negative terminal. Mine is a stop-start. What is surprising me is why your battery cannot properly operate the wipers even when not charging.
Thanks, it operates the wipers at normal speed with the lights on, which I am thinking has the BMS module on the battery started to break down and is not getting the module to kick in, or charge my battery to a better voltage end voltage as 12.3 is about 30 percent. Can I ask what your battery is reading after it has stood for a while. There was an update on the Capturs for a similar problem as their stop start and indicators were effected. No update for the Clio though, nothing on the system for my car at all.
 

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OK I don't know much more about car electrics than what I have read but since the Scenic I now have three voltmeters that seem to be consistent. One of these is permanently plugged into the cigar lighter socket and I find this invaluable in learning what is going on when driving. It gives readings which are very close to those monitored via OBD and is much easier to watch whilst driving.
Mine has never passed 14.4 v..mind you its a kia and not a renault..never heard of any car charging to that rate and obviously a fault..15v WOW..my battery volts did show at 15v mind you on my multi meter when I first owned the ix20 and was charging at over 16v..turned out the battery in the multi meter was bu55ered..darn chinese sh1t battery didn't last no time at all just 2 years..hope the duracell last's longer.. 馃榿
14.4V is normal and would be typical maximum for a traditional battery. AGM batteries normally require a charge voltage regulation of 14.4 to 14.8 volts. Most shop chargers provide a regulated 13.8 to 14.2 volts on the 鈥淟ow鈥 setting and 14.4 to 14.8 volts on the 鈥淢edium鈥 setting. The 鈥淗igh鈥 or 鈥淏oost鈥 settings exceed this and some can reach 17 volts.
Low to Medium settings can normally be used without problems. High (or Boost) is too much for AGM batteries as this will overheat the battery.
On max deceleration I have seen 14.9 regularly but only for a few seconds. Once or twice it has gone higher (the meter doesn't read above 15v - it flashes at me).
Thanks, it operates the wipers at normal speed with the lights on, which I am thinking has the BMS module on the battery started to break down and is not getting the module to kick in, or charge my battery to a better voltage end voltage as 12.3 is about 30 percent. Can I ask what your battery is reading after it has stood for a while. There was an update on the Capturs for a similar problem as their stop start and indicators were effected. No update for the Clio though, nothing on the system for my car at all.
The reading I gave you above is after standing for a couple of hours. Overnight it will probably be 12.3 or slightly less. My last car (Scenic) always dropped to 12 even with a new battery. It wouldn't worry me if the stop-start failed; they are controlled by many parameters and are therefore quite temperamental (a bit like the BMS).

It's all quite complicated (I really miss my Lucas two or three coil regulator and dynamo where I could fiddle with the settings - Phil you know what I mean). The bottom line is the specs for the car, battery and management system are necessarily matched. The BMS receives input from many sources - what the powered connection to the battery negative does I have no idea. Let me know what you find.
 

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Da daaah

Yes I read that and was going to post it up..but then I fell asleep here sitting at my PC and been out for the count for the last hour..lol..another thing I will also say is the use of the digital volt meter..I also have one in my Venga and also fitted one in the wifes Swift and find it very helpful even if the swift has a conventional charging system..also been using for many many months now is the AA solar charger which keeps things nicely ticking over at a constant 11.8v on the Venga..what I have noticed before I used it was that I had to take the car out every couple of days to top up the battery but since owning one of those its not the case..can leave the car for weeks on end and when I do take it out the battery will start her first time and very quickly start to charge at 14.4v..before the solar charger was used I had to take her for at least a 20 mile run BEFORE it would start to charge at the 14.4v..there is a significant difference and I have to say the best thing bought for a long time..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
OK I don't know much more about car electrics than what I have read but since the Scenic I now have three voltmeters that seem to be consistent. One of these is permanently plugged into the cigar lighter socket and I find this invaluable in learning what is going on when driving. It gives readings which are very close to those monitored via OBD and is much easier to watch whilst driving.

14.4V is normal and would be typical maximum for a traditional battery. AGM batteries normally require a charge voltage regulation of 14.4 to 14.8 volts. Most shop chargers provide a regulated 13.8 to 14.2 volts on the 鈥淟ow鈥 setting and 14.4 to 14.8 volts on the 鈥淢edium鈥 setting. The 鈥淗igh鈥 or 鈥淏oost鈥 settings exceed this and some can reach 17 volts.
Low to Medium settings can normally be used without problems. High (or Boost) is too much for AGM batteries as this will overheat the battery.
On max deceleration I have seen 14.9 regularly but only for a few seconds. Once or twice it has gone higher (the meter doesn't read above 15v - it flashes at me).

The reading I gave you above is after standing for a couple of hours. Overnight it will probably be 12.3 or slightly less. My last car (Scenic) always dropped to 12 even with a new battery. It wouldn't worry me if the stop-start failed; they are controlled by many parameters and are therefore quite temperamental (a bit like the BMS).

It's all quite complicated (I really miss my Lucas two or three coil regulator and dynamo where I could fiddle with the settings - Phil you know what I mean). The bottom line is the specs for the car, battery and management system are necessarily matched. The BMS receives input from many sources - what the powered connection to the battery negative does I have no idea. Let me know what you find.
Thanks, I monitor through obd using a Scangauge have done for years, means I can monitor almost everything, scan and clear codes. The 2 wires go to the wiper motor!!! Then I am struggling with the wiring diagram.

184312
 
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