Independent Renault Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The mobile Autotune guy read this information from the car using Clip, his diagnosis is Fuel Pump. Anyone have anythoughts before I hand it over to Renault?

DF197 Fuel Pressure Information
DF301 Inlet Air Circuit
DF374 Computer

Any thoughts people.

Cheers

Paul
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
MAF & Fuel pressure regulator?
The symptoms are the car is cranking but not firing, there doesn't seem to be anything coming out of fuel pump, but this could mean not being instructed to provide fuel right?

I'm hoping it is not pump as the part is £370!
 
D

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Easy way to test the pump is to remove the fuel pipe from the injector rail, put it in a plastic bottle and briefly crank the engine. If fuel comes out, then it's pumping.
If not, then probably pump, filter or fuel pump relay.
As far as i know the pump should pretty much run all the time fuel is being used, and should be able to hear it prime as soon as ignition is turned on, until it reaches pressure
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,291 Posts
From what I can gather the codes are as follows

DF197 = Pedal sensor circuit

DF301 = Air intake circuit and/or turbo control circuit.

Sorry I haven't a clue as to the other code.

What made the mechanic think it was a fuel pump problem?
Some live data regarding fuel pump or fuel rail pressures would help.:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
From what I can gather the codes are as follows

DF197 = Pedal sensor circuit

DF301 = Air intake circuit and/or turbo control circuit.

Sorry I haven't a clue as to the other code.

What made the mechanic think it was a fuel pump problem?
Some live data regarding fuel pump or fuel rail pressures would help.:)
This test was done at an independent garage, I wasn't there at the time, the report from them listed these codes and fuel pump as the problem. They were unable to do the job so I have booked it into Renault on Tuesday, who are going to do diagnostics first, so more tests. The Turbo has been replaced so and it has not run since, although this was the state of affairs before the turbo 'blew' and that is a topic for a number of other threads.

Having spent lot's of money already, I really need to get this car going, It's too nice a car to scrap, particularly after recent work that has been done, and I couldn't afford to replace it with something similar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Hi i hope this helps i have just translated the codes from a german manual to english for you

DF 374 :


Check the + 12 V for contact conn. M2 and M3, connector B of the
unit of the injection (surge or micro-breaks).
If necessary, check the battery charging circuit.



Note:
A poorly or improperly insulated cable lying portion of the motor may be susceptible to interference from
of power to the starter. This "electrical interference" disrupt the speed signal and cause
this fault. It is usually short but always prevents starting.
Check at the start of the oscilloscope or the flywheel signal is not disrupted during the first
revolutions of the engine.
With faults:
- Check that the cable harnesses from the engine and starter are installed correctly.
- check the connection speed signal is correct intertwined.
If the problem persists:
Carefully check the terminals and pins of the plug of each injector.


Make sure the cable harnesses from the engine and starter are installed correctly.
- Make sure the correct connection speed signal is entwined


DF301

Check the connectors on the solenoid valve of the turbo pressure boundary.
Check the connectors of the unit of the injection.
Restore if necessary.



AIR INTAKE CIRCUIT
CC.1: solenoid valve turbo pressure has short circuit to + 12 V
CO.0: solenoid valve turbo pressure has interruption or short circuit to earth
1.DEF: insufficient air intake circuit
2.DEF: boost pressure too high
OPINIONS



DF197



FUEL PRESSURE INFORMATION
1.DEF: measured pressure too high
2.DEF: measured pressure is too low
3.DEF: leak detection in high pressure
4.DEF: solenoid valve blocks: fuel pressure too high
5.DEF: pressure reduction in the main injector pipe








Make sure no air bubbles in the low pressure fuel circuit.
Check opbrengactuator, see the method in Part B of the search scheme "Idle Speed
irregular.
If the problem persists, replace the high pressure pump.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sounds like it may have to be a new pump, I sort of hope Renault come to this or a simpler solution as I have run out of cash but can't function without the motor. At least a new pump has a known price attached to it.

Although it would be nice if it was just something simple like a sensor or connectivity fault! :confused:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,291 Posts
If indeed it turns out to be failed pump don't be surprised if a Renault dealer quotes figures of around £3000. Once the pump fails it produces metal filings which contaminate the whole fuel system including the fuel tank. Renault take the view of replacing all components with new parts - hence the price.

As Renault prices are likely to be more than the car is worth it may be better to seek advice from a diesel specialist who may be able to recondition some aspects and flush other areas, etc.:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
If indeed it turns out to be failed pump don't be surprised if a Renault dealer quotes figures of around £3000. Once the pump fails it produces metal filings which contaminate the whole fuel system including the fuel tank. Renault take the view of replacing all components with new parts - hence the price.

As Renault prices are likely to be more than the car is worth it may be better to seek advice from a diesel specialist who may be able to recondition some aspects and flush other areas, etc.:)
I called them and asked for a quote to replace the fuel pump and was quoted £124.20 for labour (1 hour) and £370.00 for the part. If it is more than that I may have to write it off, I just don't have the money and will have to do without it.

It ran like a dream right up until the day before it failed to start, no flat spots or hesitation, nothing, I got ave 50MPG on a run to Brum and Back.

Next day it wouldn't start and the troubles began. I actually really like this car, but have no idea what I can do with it if it is that much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Paul Just Call William A Lewis Service Dept and just compare to see if there is any price diff :)

01743 450030 they guy i spoke to seemed very with it unlike some who just think £££ worth a try.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,291 Posts
Easy way to test the pump is to remove the fuel pipe from the injector rail, put it in a plastic bottle and briefly crank the engine. If fuel comes out, then it's pumping.
If not, then probably pump, filter or fuel pump relay.
As far as i know the pump should pretty much run all the time fuel is being used, and should be able to hear it prime as soon as ignition is turned on, until it reaches pressure
The high pressure fuel pump only dleivers fuel when the engine is rotating. It has a low pressure side which draws fuel from the tank - there is no electrical low pressure primary pump. Therefore you won't hear a pump running when the ignition is switched on.

I would warn against trying the disconnecting the fuel pipe test as these high pressure fuel pumps are capable of delivering fuel at pressures up to 22,000 psi - high enough to kill anyone unlucky enough to get caught in their path.:eek:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,291 Posts
One of the most common symptoms of a failed high pressure fuel pump is the sign of fine metal particles trapped in the fuel filter. If found then you can be sure the complete fuel system has been contaminated.

I suggest this cheap check be done first - then take it from there.

Once contaminated not only will the pump require replacing but also the injectors and fuel rail and then the rest of the system will need a thorough flushing. This involves removing the fuel tank for a proper cleaning

Even using recon parts I reckon the cheapest you'll get away with is £1200 to £1700.

It is sad to see such young and fresh cars condemned for what seems a simple problem.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Found This on Ebay

2001 + Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci High Pressure Fuel Pump


Item condition:UsedTime left:6d 06h (04 May, 201120:35:21 BST)Starting bid:£30.00[ 0 bids ]


Starting bid:£30.00 Starting Bid £30.00 6 Days Left

Item number: 270741581572
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I'm clutching at straws here, but could it be a fairly simple electrical failure? It failed when the car was stationery. It ran one perfectly well one day then just wouldn't start the next.

Having spent so far this year:

£630.00 New Springs/shocks and tyres on the front (Pot hole)
£800.00 (Ish) Turbo and related parts

I am wiped out, there is no way this car is getting fixed if Renault quote me that much. A little looking around and there are new cars out there for that kind of money.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
546 Posts
if it does turn out to be the high pressure pump which has failed don't accept a quote from Reno main dealers as the only solution, follow Madnoel's advice (always worthwhile in any case) and seek independant advice.

When the pump on my Espace went I was quoted £3580 to repair mine by the garage who diagnosed it, and that did NOT include new injectors as luckily no contaminant was found in the fuel filter.

The 3.0 dci is a particularly troublesome engine as to remove the fuel pump the engine has to come out and the gearbox split to release the pump, BUT.... a local independant reconditioned the pump in situ for £700, roughly half parts and half labour.

The RMD seemed to take it for granted when they gave me the quote that I would not want the work done, they never offered to book it in, just gave me the bill for diag and sent me on my way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Dengel

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
if it does turn out to be the high pressure pump which has failed don't accept a quote from Reno main dealers as the only solution, follow Madnoel's advice (always worthwhile in any case) and seek independant advice.

When the pump on my Espace went I was quoted £3580 to repair mine by the garage who diagnosed it, and that did NOT include new injectors as luckily no contaminant was found in the fuel filter.

The 3.0 dci is a particularly troublesome engine as to remove the fuel pump the engine has to come out and the gearbox split to release the pump, BUT.... a local independant reconditioned the pump in situ for £700, roughly half parts and half labour.

The RMD seemed to take it for granted when they gave me the quote that I would not want the work done, they never offered to book it in, just gave me the bill for diag and sent me on my way.
Now I have to find a decent independend diesel specialist. Anyone know one in North London?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
99 Posts
Am I the only one in confusion on this problem? The problem seems far from clear. The only fact I read is that the engine is turning over but won't start. That has been translated into a fuel pump problem on specious evidence to say the least. Renault offering to change the fuel pump for about £600 is curious. Did they quote for a low pressure pump? Does this Laguna have a low pressure pump? I believe the F9Q 754 has one. What was the fuel pressure when the clip check was done? It looks like the engine is not getting fuel, the cause is far from clear.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
354 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Am I the only one in confusion on this problem? The problem seems far from clear. The only fact I read is that the engine is turning over but won't start. That has been translated into a fuel pump problem on specious evidence to say the least. Renault offering to change the fuel pump for about £600 is curious. Did they quote for a low pressure pump? Does this Laguna have a low pressure pump? I believe the F9Q 754 has one. What was the fuel pressure when the clip check was done? It looks like the engine is not getting fuel, the cause is far from clear.
My problem is a limited knowledge of modern engines or diagnostics. I understand what the systems are, what they do and even ho some of them work. The difficulty arises when in a position of having to trust experts, the AA did no diagnostics just tried to force the cr to start even though it was clear the engine was getting no fuel and all the problems started from there.

I thought this car had an electric fuel pump, but pictures I have seen suggest a cambelt driven pump. I am hoping, maybe in vain, that it turns out to be an electrical sensor or control problem, even a burnt out pump. But I am completely confused.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
99 Posts
This car has a cambelt driven mechanical fuel injection pump. Cost of replacing failed pump including ancillary item such as fuel pipes,injectors, timing and auxiliary drive kits by Renault around £3000. It may, or may not have, in addition an electric low pressure pump supplying the fuel injection pump. The lack of fuel could be anything from a blocked fuel filter to a disintegrated fuel injection pump. That the problem arose suddenly without much in the way of early symptoms suggests an electrical problem, but I am 400 miles away!
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top