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Being a careful type at the end of Feb this year I had my cam belt and tensioners replaced on my scenic 1.9 dci having covered just over 50k (£300 +). Last week my car suddenly stopped. The drive belt (fan belt) had snapped and forced its way behind the bottom pully and lodged into the bottom cam belt pully. The result is a hefty bill for bent valves etc. Not pleased with the garage who did the repair having read in the Haynes repair manual that if a drive belt is removed for any reason it should be replaced, It wasn't and we're in dispute. Does anyone have any further information which refers to a requirement to change the drive belt (fan belt) during a cam belt repair.
 

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Welcome to the forum.:)

I don't think there is any requirement to change the auxillary belt when replacing the cambelt,but it is a good idea.Most garages will only change the aux' belt if there is any obvious signs of wear or damage.

Are you sure there is not another reason that the belt broke?.Do the pulleys it runs on still look lined up?.Earlier engines suffered with alternator pulley failure which would cause the same problem.
 

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Renault Specifically state that any tensioned belt MUST be replaced if it is removed.. Under No circumstances should a Cambelt or Accesory belt be refitted..

I personnaly never reuse any belt on any vehicle if it has been removed.. Any garage/mechanic that does is ASKING for BIG Trouble...
 

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If it's been done by an official Renault service centre then you probably have a case, if not you're probably stuffed as there's nothing states that an independant mechanic has to do what Renault suggests or dictates, in fact, they usually do the opposite which in most cases is fine and exactly why we use them - what are the chances of an aux belt snapping and lodging in the cam belt pulley? That's really unlucky imo, actually, it's a bloody tragedy. :(
 

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Accessory belts snapping and becoming entangled in the cambelt is a relatively common occurence. Particularly on Renault engines.. That is exactly the reason why Renault state that belts should never be reused..

In anycase it is poor work practise to reuse a tensioned belt anyway..

Shame on the garage who did it...
 

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I would never re-use a cambelt as if your removing it,you'd might as well replace it because there is generally a lot of work involved changing a cam belt and they are under a lot more strain than an auxillary belt.

I have never been of the opinion that an auxillary belt should be replaced no matter what,and have never had any problems......I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me!.I have never known an auxillary belt break after it has been re-fitted and the only instances of an auxillary belt wrecking a cambelt I have known,there has always been a different cause for it(alternator pulley breaking on a PD Volkswagen diesel,and a bottom pulley breaking on a HDi Peugeot engine).But then I don't have that much experience of modern Renaults......perhaps it's a design fault on their part,rather than a problem with the belts!:)

Any how,each to their own and all that.:d.
 

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It is generally "not a good idea" to re-use a tensioned belt and shame indeed on the garage who did re-use it, especially if it goes against Renault guidelines. Many years ago I had to change the alternator on my Rover 820. I changed the aux belt at the same time; in the overall scheme of things it was only a few pounds more to pay for peace of mind...chances are when you remove the old one, you may touch it and put grease on it (if only the natural grease from your fingers) and this starts to degrade the belt.
Hence better safe than sorry
 

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One thing leads to another...

Hi

I have a story about how one small fault can be very expencive. I have a Laguna II dci 1.9. The plastic cover over the engive has been loose for a while. Very practical, since it can be lifter off without any tools. But one of the diesel pipes, from the filter to the pump, goes under the cover. After a while, the loose cover was tearing a hole in the rather fragile pipe.

It happened the day of my wedding (!). So as I was on my way to the chuch and was wearing a tux, the options was limited. I smelled diesel, stopped the car and saw a small spray of diesel from the broken pipe. I hastely fixed the pipe with some tape and drowe off. Lots of smoke when the diesel came on the hot manifoil.

A day later I replaced the pipe with a rubber hose. I noticed that the diesel was all over the place. I washed most of if off and checked the cam belt. No diesel there, luckily. After a few more days the engine suddenly changed pitch and the girl (not my wife)started to complain about service and that the injection system fas faulty. The engine was still running, but erratic. I stopped the car and opended the hood, only to find a broken acessory belt. It loocked like spagetti. As I was going on honeymoon the day after, I called for a tow truck and have them fix the acessory belt.

When I got home again and went to pick up the car, the mechanic told me that they couldn't get the car started. The cam belt was out of allignment they said. So they took the cam belt off and put in a new one with the correct allignment. It turned out that the broken acessory belt had found itselves a way to the lower cam pulley and wound around it, causing the belt to jump over. They said that the lower pulley was 180 degrees wrong. But they couldn't understand why the valves was unharmed. The only sollution I can come up with, is that there must be enough clearing for the pistons not to crash into the valves.

So the small diesel leakage turned out to cost me 10000 NOK, or £900.

So a small hole in the diesel pipe caused a big hole on my valet.

Best regards,

Ketil
 

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Define 'tensioned belt'? :confused: It's common sense surely, the belt is 'tensioned' the minute it's been run, but you wouldn't replace it if you knew it had only been changed a few weeks prior - if you did then you're being a bit paranoid and over cautious in my opinion.

If a broken aux belt is finding it's way into the pulley then the answer is not to make sure it doesn't snap, it's to make sure it can't get into the pulley if and when it does - it could snap for any number of reasons not just general wear and tear, it could be worn by something else that's inadvertantly found it's way in there or come loose and if that means I could possibly need a new head just because the aux belt snapped, then I'd be bloody annoyed. :steam:

Seriously, if this is common then it's easily fixed by simple covers or guards and should have been long ago. :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks.do you know of any documentation/refernce that i could find to help with my situation...garage used autodata...in haynes it states belt needs to be changed...
 

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Go to your local dealer, speak to the service manager and ask them for a copy of the Tech Note that specifies that TENSIONED BELTS must BE REPLACED..
 

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sorry to add a question to this thread.. but
i got my cambelt changed last september along with the auxillary belt.. but int he winter weather i noticed my belt was slipping (theres a thread about it) its fine now as weathers better, so i dont hear it slip, except the odd few mornings..

its their a chance of it snapping coz it slips sometimes..? or is it ok as its quite new..?
 

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i would say you just need a little more tension on it

regards
nthesx
 

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i would say you just need a little more tension on it

regards
nthesx
is dat an easy job? can any garage do it? or just a renault specialist?

Price?

how do you know how much tension it needs? because its not slippin now.. so will garage know?
 

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im not at all to clued up with renault engines and im not sure if they have a tensioner on them.if it doesnt then the job is should be easy(ford engine experiance).they are normally mounted on a slide,just locate the slide undo the bolt a touch and try to wench it back a bit with a screw driver or similar(carefull of any electrics)while you still got presure on it do the bolt up.
its always worked for me

hope this is any help

regards
nthesx
 

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Now we get into the discussion about belt tensioning..

There are three main ways that Cambelts & Accessory belts are tensioned.

1: Using an "automatic" tensioner that is set by turning the pulley that is on an offset cam and aligning the marks on the backplate. Then tightening the nut to lock the pulley.

2: Turning the Tensioner pulley while using a belt tension measurement tool to measure the correct resonant frequency. Then again locking the pulley

3: By using a sprung loaded tensioner that is fully automatic and requires no measurement as the spring pressure is set at manufacture..

In the old days the rule of thumb was to tension the belt to a point that you could only turn the belt by 90 degrees.
However belt tensions can be critical to ensure the longetivity of the belt..
In the case of the 1.9DCi the belt tension is 90 Seem units which is pretty slack., and you can turn the belt by almost 140 degrees or so..

Having the correct tools and knowledge is key to working with todays vehicles which are much less tolerant to tho's built 10 years ago. Especially now that most engines are "interference" ones that means that if the cambelt snaps the pistons hit the valves, and therefore major repair bills.

There is no excuse for any Independant mechanic or Garage not to be aware of manufacturer specific instructions as it is available both on the internet or via the many mechanic data books/CD's.
 

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hi to all
i'm not sure if i'm relieved that the fact the garage was right or dreading any further news from them, i shall tell my story,
a few weeks ago after a long journey i stoped at a motorway services, on starting up the motor (before a loud cd kicked in) i heard a terrible noise, a rattling sound, after inspection i thought it was the heat exchange plate rattling away to itself, so i carried on with my journey some 80 miles to go, the next day i got a second opionion i started the motor and the neighbour was looking under the bonnet he shouted " turn it off turn it off " he then pointed out that the idler gear had shattered and pieces were hanging out the cover, he adviced me to have a cam belt kit fitted,
i took the car to what i always thought to be a reputable garage explained my story and asked for a cam belt kit to be fitted, i was quoted £80 for the kit and £140 for labour, i was fairly happy with that but for piece of mind i decided to get a quote for the parts from a local automotive parts supplier that i had used before and was quoted £94 +vat for the kit, i was a happy bunny thinking to myself that the garage obviously got the parts trade and was charging a compettetive price, hence the work was carried out by the said garrage,
this is where the fun starts, i phoned a few days later to see if the car was ready and if so could they confirm the bill price, i was told it was ready and the bill was £447 +vat i asked why the bill had risen so much and was told it was because the parts used was more than expected, i asked for a detailed explanation on parts used and costs,
to my disbelieve i was told a pack of lies, i then interrupted them and told them that i could get the same kit and all the same parts used for £94+vat, to cut an even longer story short they told me they would do me a deal ( one i now will regret as you will find out) they would charge me the same labour charge of £140 and charge me the same price for the parts as i could get them for £110 inc so that was a total of £250 and had to be paid in cash with no reciept,
not having a large income i had no choice but to go with it,
i paid my money and off i drove thinking to myself i'll never go there again,
a couple of weeks had passed now and all was well until last moday morning (the school run busy roads)
the kids jumped out the car, i pull away and hear this funny flapping noise i manage to get to the main road, mini island, with what seemed to be a mile of traffic behind me and all in a rush, and the dreaded happened, yeah you guessed it stopped, after a few beeps angry faces and a few choice words, i managed to push it off the road,
i lifted the bonnet and there it was a shredded aux belt all over the place, me not knowing what the hell was going on i decided to leave it there walk home and seek help,
you soon find out who your friends are in times of trouble,
after two days of not being able to get the car towed to my house, and a police notice to boot, i had no choice but to phone the afore mentioned garage, my thoughts thinking why has this happened after they had done the work ?
he turned up and said that the belt had shread and has wrapped itself around the cam belt had had obviously jumped out, he said he would tow it away replace the belt and re time the engine and just hope that ive not bent the valves as that would be expensive,
now after reading all your comments and knowing its a common fault, i ask myself this,
should the garage have replaced the aux belt with a new one?
are they at fault ?
was it shoddy fitting ?
should i take the matter to trading standars ? or if all else fails should i inform the tax man about his dealings ?
as of yet the car is still with them and have not started any work since towing away,
my dilema is to be continued, hope ive not bored you all to sleep,
any comments welcome even if only to humour me cus i could do with a bloody laugh :steam:
 

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You need to buy a gun, a big one, in fact get two. Then visit the garage and shoot the place up good and proper, steal the keys and paperwork for the best car they have and drive to Spain where you will live happily ever after.

That's my advice. Hope it helps. :)

On a more serious note: easy said I know, but never ever trust anyone that hasn't been recommended to you personally, at least twice, by independant sources. You can't trust anybody anymore, with taxes and prostitution so high everyone is out to make an easy buck. Everyone, without exception, even voluntary aid workers. (I'm bitter and cynical and that's my opinion).

I don't own any guns btw. :)
 

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having the same issue now and feel like local garage is takin mick saying will cost over 1500
is this right they say the valves are bent too
 

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Luckey enough i know our mechanic. I had same problem i have a RX4 i heard a noise from the engine and took the car in .The fan belt tensioner had failed.they replaced the tensioner but advised i had the pully changed on the alternator due to it being a clutch type.They took the car to a starter/alternator specialist who replaced /recon the pully wheel.Quiet rx4 great.
I ran the car 3 further times over the week on the 3 time a round trip 80 miles 3 stop starts no problem until i stopped the car to let my friends out .the car wouldn't start flat battery(new battery 4 months ago)I fetched my van and jump started the car it started but the noise was back so i called the recovery people out told them of problem i wanted the car towed in due to noise i was worried about the cam belt.Parked the car up after loading the RX4 (cannot tow 4x4) left parked in factory until monday started monday morn to park on car park started no problem then cut out.went to start again it wouldn't fire.garage had a look could not start.He suggested the cam belt had jumped.Stripped car yes the bottom tensioner had failed on the cam belt.Cam ok .Valves bent hence noise from engine.Morral If you buy a car which they say the belt has been changed.Ignore them have belt changed anyway and have the Kit fitted change water pump and anything down there it costs at first but a least the rx4 should be ok for another 70000
 
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