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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Go back to fuse 1 on the interior fuse box.
Measure here ( Need at least battery voltage )
If battery voltage is good at that fuse
Then where the fuse box is under the bonnet down by the light unit , or that area, you are after a plug with wires both sides of it ( Should be blue ) ONCE found take a picture of it careful here, these wires in this plug tend to come away when you move it, so get pictures first if possible.
Now check inside this plug for issues
Cannot help you with pin out, post your oval plate and will look to see if I have a wiring diagram , might be able to find pin out from that
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I´m so greateful ours2012

Will mesaure fuse 1 tomorrow.
The blue plugg (behind the big fusebox and relay´s under bonnet) i spend some hour´s at few week ago, if its the same blue plugg ( post photo)

They have connect the +power to the aftermarket mounted Webasto-heater from that blue plugg, that´s the black electrical tape on the picture.....And also draw a new piece of kabel from the green one, probably garage did before because of bad connections ?

And ivé been out at the van looking for oval plate and find it.

Electrical wiring Computer hardware Electronic engineering Cable Electrical supply

Rectangle Font Parallel Pattern Automotive wheel system


Best regards John
 

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Hi,

you say the van starts for a few seconds then cuts out, this sounds like a fuel issue ?
Have you primed the pump?, there is a good chance that whilst the vehicle has been idle that the fuel has drained back and the pump is trying to pump air . Try pumping the primer until it is hard and then have someone spray in the easy start (gas in a can), as you try starting, some times getting air out of a diesel fuel system can take some perseverance.

Al..
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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6,478 Posts
So it seems I have been wrong to slander the scanner - it is still useful for this reason:

Fields/parameters "Key RF frame", "Keycode registered" and "Keycode validated" changed :eek:

Now why did this happen? .................. following along with @ours2012 suggestion of power/connections - those 2 fields IMO should NOT have changed to "NO" in your last screenshot from "YES" before .

I think the computers are now talking to each other and based on simply power being present, will allow the start of the engine .......................BUT - it's not recognizing your particular key and hence cut the ignition.

The problem with fiddling with wires like you have done (sensibly and understandably), is bound to disturb wires/connections/integrity of conductors/signals .................. you have seen now how easily a single wire got damaged for no explainable (?) reason ......................

I would still suggest try a spare key first before you do anything else
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hi guy´s :)

A55ii:

Yes the fuel missing/bad pressure, was my first thought yesterday.
And i haven´t tell you guy´s that i (a few weeks ago) also unmounted the dieselfilter and check it in my troubleshooting.

But if that´s was the only problem, the van (in my mind) should have different "long run`s" when starting it, maby 1 secund first start but 3 secunds the next start....Now its exactly the same short run´s...like a clock!
So it have to be something more i think.

LvR:

You are so right, i diden´t notice that "Key RF frame", "Keycode registered" and "Keycode validated" parameters change!
And must say the quality of the cabels used in Renault are not good enough for car-use, in Skandinavia where i live.

Yesterday when i was trying to start i had both key´s taped together like photo, but maby just try with one key at the time (just to see i something happens)

A question:
Is 2,5 Volt at A1 the right value ?
And is 12,7 Volt at D1 & E4 correct ?
Earth on H1 & H4 & G4 ?

And is A3 2,4 Volt & A4 2,6 Volt correct values ?

So greatful for all suggestions here, and that the van finaly shows some "life"...because i was began to" give up"

Automotive lighting Aircraft Hood Grey Automotive exterior


1 celsius here in Sweden now, and night was -4.
Will go out to the van soon and try doing "something".

Best regards John
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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THAT, imo is plain looking for trouble - the chips/comms in the keys will undoubtedly try and communicate with the pickup on the steering column all at the same time - now I am willing to bet the pickup ring will not be able to decipher/decide which key is currently in the ignition (or even if a key is in the ignition) and the result will be the immobilizer pleading ignorance.

Do things the way they are supposed to be done - one key at a time.

As for voltages - sorry - have no diagrams at hand and also no real time to go chase it up today
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Hello LvR and Ours2012 and you other guy´s

Been out agian, but its sooo cold...- 2 celsius but moist in the air so feel´s like -15

Tested to start the van with "only" ONE key today, ( the other key 20 m away from the van)
Still the same, it starts and die.
Tested also the other key the same way, but no different.

Plugged in Icarsoft CR MAX and sometimes , "Keycode registered" and "Keycode validated" reads YES, and sometime when i turn the key it says NO ( when tested "Live" about 10-15 times)

" RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is always NO

Computer Personal computer Gadget Communication Device Output device

Computer Gadget Communication Device Personal computer Font



Also got new error code ? (And erase them)
DF002 : Computer supply voltage, Voltage Outside Tolerance Limits
DF095 : Computer supply voltage to low
But photo showing that OBD2 port has 12,79 Volt at this time

Computer Font Gadget Screenshot Display device

Gadget Computer Font Screenshot Display device



ours2012:

To cold today to mesaure and working with bare hands, but will check up fuse 1 and look/mesaure at the Blue plugg tomorrow.

Have you find a shematic or was the one i posted the right one?
It would be nice to know what cable color I should look for and mesaure, because it´s so many.

Best regards John
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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6,478 Posts
Hello LvR and Ours2012 and you other guy´s

Been out agian, but its sooo cold...- 2 celsius but moist in the air so feel´s like -15

Tested to start the van with "only" ONE key today, ( the other key 20 m away from the van)
Still the same, it starts and die.
Tested also the other key the same way, but no different.

Plugged in Icarsoft CR MAX and sometimes , "Keycode registered" and "Keycode validated" reads YES, and sometime when i turn the key it says NO ( when tested "Live" about 10-15 times)

" RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is always NO

View attachment 194723
View attachment 194724



Also got new error code ? (And erase them)
DF002 : Computer supply voltage, Voltage Outside Tolerance Limits
DF095 : Computer supply voltage to low
But photo showing that OBD2 port has 12,79 Volt at this time

View attachment 194725
View attachment 194726



ours2012:

To cold today to mesaure and working with bare hands, but will check up fuse 1 and look/mesaure at the Blue plugg tomorrow.

Have you find a shematic or was the one i posted the right one?
It would be nice to know what cable color I should look for and mesaure, because it´s so many.

Best regards John
The OBD port is fed directly from the battery via a fuse - if it reads an acceptable value of 12.79V it does NOT mean the computer is seeing the same voltage at all - in fact the computer is already saying its seeing only 11.14V on that one screen and its fed via its own circuit............... and during cranking/starting that will undoubtedly drop even further triggering the moan about voltage too low

Do not underestimate the importance of a good battery in a proper state of charge on any modern vehicle.

The mere fact that you have variable states of those 3 parameters relating to the key getting reported says you have the answer there ................... make that go away and chances are you will have a running engine
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Hi again

Just want to point out again that about 2 weeks ago i have try with another antenna-ring/receiver in the van and try to start.

Could this have done some "problems" for the immobiliser/UCH, and that wats showing now ?
Problem " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "NO"
Ivé put my old orgninal in at the same time because it was just a test ( troubleshooting)

Tire Automotive tire Tread Synthetic rubber Rim


So greatful for all help, you make me don´t give up!...I had been close so many times now.

Best regards John
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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I really doubt the replacement of the antenna ring in itself could have done any damage or caused any problems - actions around that may have though (broken wire/connector/inadvertent short etc etc)

Me? - I would want to know why and fix the computer reporting substantially lower voltages than the OBD port and at the same time generating errors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Hi guy´s
Supercold here in Sweden today to, about -2 but the coold goes trough you´r clothes (Pre-winter-weather)

Been out at the van anyway and mesaure Fuse 1 it´s 13,4 Volt both sides.
ours2012 have you have time to find the shematic for the big "Blue" plugg under bonnet?, it sholud be so good to have.

I also mesaure the cabels to the Transponder-ring/Antenna-ring, it has colure "Purpule/Red", "Pink/Red andBlack.
And i mesaure 12,57 Volt at "Purple/Red, 13,35 Volt on "Pink/red and Earth at Black cable. ( so all seems okey)

Hand Automotive lighting Finger Automotive tire Tire


Batteri +pol photo and my batteri-pack as it is now. ( Just for info if someones see a problem)

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Steering part Rim Steering wheel
Hood Electrical wiring Motor vehicle Electronic component Computer hardware


Aslo diagnos the Van with the reader.
Today "ONLY" error code DF095: Computer supply voltage to low
It´s on the ABS computer reading 1 ERROR

Output device Communication Device Gadget Computer Audio equipment


And LvR:


I manage to "understand" the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "NO".
When you unlook the van the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "YES" as shows in photo

Gadget Communication Device Output device Computer Font

.


But when you put the key in and turn it, the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "YES", but shifting to "NO" , and insteed the "Key code validated" and "Key code Registred" turn to "YES" ( photo).

Output device Computer Communication Device Mobile device Portable communications device


So don´t think the problem lies there LvR

My "feeling" is that problems lies in to low Voltage at some connection-point OR Battery bad!

So i think i must begain with trying to get new (expensive) 110 Amp Battery, and then after that go on with "troubleshooting"

What do you think guy`s ?

Best regards John
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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6,478 Posts
Hi guy´s
Supercold here in Sweden today to, about -2 but the coold goes trough you´r clothes (Pre-winter-weather)

Been out at the van anyway and mesaure Fuse 1 it´s 13,4 Volt both sides.
ours2012 have you have time to find the shematic for the big "Blue" plugg under bonnet?, it sholud be so good to have.

I also mesaure the cabels to the Transponder-ring/Antenna-ring, it has colure "Purpule/Red", "Pink/Red andBlack.
And i mesaure 12,57 Volt at "Purple/Red, 13,35 Volt on "Pink/red and Earth at Black cable. ( so all seems okey)

View attachment 194738

Batteri +pol photo and my batteri-pack as it is now. ( Just for info if someones see a problem)

View attachment 194733 View attachment 194734

Aslo diagnos the Van with the reader.
Today "ONLY" error code DF095: Computer supply voltage to low
It´s on the ABS computer reading 1 ERROR

View attachment 194735

And LvR:


I manage to "understand" the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "NO".
When you unlook the van the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "YES" as shows in photo

View attachment 194736
.


But when you put the key in and turn it, the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" is "YES", but shifting to "NO" , and insteed the "Key code validated" and "Key code Registred" turn to "YES" ( photo).

View attachment 194737

So don´t think the problem lies there LvR

My "feeling" is that problems lies in to low Voltage at some connection-point OR Battery bad!

So i think i must begain with trying to get new (expensive) 110 Amp Battery, and then after that go on with "troubleshooting"

What do you think guy`s ?

Best regards John
So glad you are making headway with understanding the logic of the immobilizer then. :p

Just goes to show how useless the posting of screenshots off scanners are when the context is missing - sorry if I possibly forced you to relook at something unnecessarily but I really think that taped-up key set was and still is a bad idea.

Let's see about the diagrams, but I cannot think of a reason why the ABS computer would kill the engine at this stage.

Do you not have the ability to look at live data on the ABS computer at all with the scanners you have? ................. is the ABS fuse ok?

As for the error codes:
DF002 : Computer supply voltage, Voltage Outside Tolerance Limits
So what happened now with this? ............... what did you do to make it go away?

I think both myself and @ours2012 was under the impression that the ECU itself was complaining about low voltage and hence the suggestions ....................

However - following your latest post it now transpires you have low voltage error DF002 on the ABS computer and NOT the ECU?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
sorry if I possibly forced you to relook at something unnecessarily but I really think that taped-up key set was and still is a bad idea.

No no LvR don´t be sorry :), i´m so happy you made a point, and you was right about "Engine Immobiliser" Active, it should read "Inaktive" as now (y)

So finding out how the " RF frame received" and "Key R.F frame assigned to Vehicle" work´s was importent in the troubleshooting process, and i am now able to "go on" finding the "next" problem/problem´s.

About the DF002 : Computer supply voltage, Voltage Outside Tolerance Limits, i just erae it yesterday, and it haven´t come back.

A little strange is that the ABS computor haven´t got Error codes before, before the Error codes only exist in ECM/ECU ?
And DF095 is a "new" Error code, never been seen before.

Still don´t know if 2,5 Volt is right for stift A1, or if it should be higher ?....Anyone ?

Have been away bying a new battery, i bought a AGM battery 95 AMP 850 A (ca) because their 110 AMP battery was 4 centimeters "longer then my old one" i i diden´t dare to chance if not fits.

So now some hour´s loading new battery and ( if the icebear´s not seen outside) maby test the new battery later to night ;)
New battery draws almost 8 amp from the battery charger in the beginning, slowly sink to 7, so will charge until it´s down to about 2 amp.

As they say in "Back To The future"......To be continued

Best regards John
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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6,478 Posts
Can I suggest the following procedure to prevent the computers going nuts and generating garbage errors during the battery replacement:

Assuming you have already removed the old battery and the battery tray is empty:

Ignition off and Switch on headlights (yes)
Clean all battery terminals and cables, and coat with Vaseline both the new battery's posts and the terminals on the cables.
Connect the battery terminals with a firm motion and push to seat them properly.
Switch off the headlights.
Fasten the terminals properly.
Switch on ignition without starting the vehicle and leave it like that for about a minute.
Switch off ignition.
Leave the vehicle with doors closed and locked for 30 minutes while you go have a tea/coffee.
Come back, unlock the vehicle, switch on ignition without starting engine and plug-in scanner.
Scan ALL computers in the vehicle and make sure you clear ALL errors that you find.
Switch off ignition and wait 5 minutes.
Now try and start engine ...................

Here's hoping
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Perfect explanation LvR, thank you so much :)

Ivé just been out disconnecting old battery, and have take it inside in my hallway.

Did put the head-lamp on before i disconnect the old battery, first - then + (y)
Mesaure the "old" battery now in my hallway to 13,2 Volt ( i´d hope i was only 11, 7 volt or something around that)
So old battery seems quite good, but i cross my fingers new battery makes "Miracles"

I found some military weapon-grease to use insted of Vaseline, and i will clean the battery terminals with a steelbrusch.

Will follow you´r instructions LvR !
"It aint over until the fat lady sing´s"

Best regards John
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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37,184 Posts
AT Pin a1 should have 12 volts when cranking,
got an Inertia switch fitted to the van somewhere by any chance?
Can you check ( Looks like this )

Automotive lighting Gadget Cable Font Auto part



just give it a press to be sure
Should be on the Left near the bulkhead looking in from the front
Picture is not very clear , so could even be under the scuttle panel area
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
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6,478 Posts
AT Pin a1 should have 12 volts when cranking,
got an Inertia switch fitted to the van somewhere by any chance?
Can you check ( Looks like this )

View attachment 194747


just give it a press to be sure
Should be on the Left near the bulkhead looking in from the front
Picture is not very clear , so could even be under the scuttle panel area
As in his picture posted earlier here?:geek:
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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6,478 Posts
I understand the thinking on killing a running engine with this, but still struggle to understand the ABS computer b1tching about low voltage.

Let's hope the new battery, pushing this button and a boatload of luck have an engine running properly with no error codes :devilish:
 
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