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Discussion Starter #1
As doing the MIL's Nissan note Air con - I decided to see why the scenic had stopped working too, basically compressor has seized - its not compressor clutch, as free wheels the centre is stuck solid - tried to turn with water pump pliers ... FFS!!!! and system has no pressure, was gassed last year and worked fine till October when stopped using - Also getting DF232 pressure sensor shorted to ground, now is this default when pressure lost or a faulty switch? I know Compressor is a Delphi 5 cvc model had bumper off to change squeaky belt at same time and read info.
 

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Super Moderator Technical Supremo Platinum Member
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There's a reet bu55er :frown2:

That's the trouble when people turn the AC off cos it's winter.... sits there doing nuffink and eventually forgets what it should do.

I think the switch to ground may be a default but no guarantee..... I know it is on the ECU 5v loop and is resistive so low pressure will be reading low volts.
But not sure if zero pressure gets to ground.
We have seen faulty AC sensors drag down the 5v loop and cause problems elsewhere as sensors all read low.... be aware.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
going to unplug it and retest and see if still the same, not an expensive or hard part to change and as bumper has to come off to do a/c compressor will probably replace if required in next week or so, As going up North August 8th to see the Northerners (Barnsley) part of family, so that's the latest I can have fixed by, just it was so humid today, missus complained about Air-con being weak - weak it chuffing wasn't working - full stop!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Well have fitted both compressors to Scenic and mIl's Note and now awaiting a few more parts before re-gassing both next week, after both being vacuum tested then evacuated of any system moisture 1st.
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Well Scenic has new O rings , 2x Schrader Valves, and a new pressure switch, pulled and held a vacuum for a hour, evacuted any moisture by pulling a vacuum for 45 minutes and re-gassed and seems to be running cold fine. took for a 45 min drive to make sure all the oil / refrigerant truly circulated
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note the highly knackered schrader valves would have never been gas tight, and the compressor O rings was stained where the u.v dye seeped past.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
tbh not checked and as its a single switch A/C not climate control , restoring gas pressure kicked in compressor straight away (no reset required) and I had to finish up job, as one of my two kids was due to start the bed time dance ( 30 mins to get it bed, as she needs a wee, a drink, a biscuit, a cuddle, to be tucked in etc - she's High functioning Autistic - so same routine, always daddy to put her to bed for last 6 years odd)

I will check when I have a quick re-check tomorrow to make sure all is still o.k with system
just to point out all work including vacuum test, evacuation of moisture and re-gas done at home by myself, using semi pro kit - went in with a mate to acquire as we have 4 cars with A/C problems between use to fix.

Also in my working life I have used Pro setup to gas own car with supervision, so had an idea what I was doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
o.k a quick check today outside temp by wing mirror sensor 34c inside temp 47c by vent thermometer... started car while I plugged in laptop and diag tool, the fault df232 still present, but now a historic (stored) fault, rather than a current permanent fault. A re-check of temp after roughly a minute, it's sitting at about 5 to 6c at idle and a steady 4-5c when driven. cleared fault, took for a drive and rechecked and no faults (DTC's) to be found. now to monitor over next few days.

Missus is now taunting her mum as we have A/C and her Nissan does not... well till i fix it once parts are in.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Check now with engine off key on, do a complete rescan of the car..
Now start the car, and look for the diagnostic to show a new fault
Cannot find that Fault code Gaz , .
Did look to see what it meant,

Dialogys showing anything.
Or are you using Autocom/delphi/worth for the fault code
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Autocom delphi - have done a scan from engine off - out car - lock - in car and ignition on, ALL faults now gone, so i'm guessing it was either the ZERO gas pressure or faulty switch, as i was doing the schrader valve under it, I bought the switch as nothing worse than it breaking when taken off, no idea if old one is faulty - just replaced as part of A/C fix / service. We have been out for a drive for a few hours with missus and kids and now home, we are now sweating and the difference in temperature is really noticeable.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Yes basically - pretty much sorted after a full A/C service and repair and fitting of a s/h compressor and various new parts, and the invaluable advice ( for free ) from the A/C guy ( 20 miles away ) about Zero pressure (empty) A/C systems - and the minimum steps to recommission them and the high chance of future failure if steps skipped.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
o.k you can all get your thinking caps on..... now its cooled down to 16C outside the Air con is ICE cold and i mean TOO COLD as showing a minus figure (-6) on the vent thermometer. So a quick rescan with two tools and no faults showing (delphi and icarsoft)

Background

s/h compressor (no noticible oil in it - stood on end to drain -150ml filling capacity)

2 new schrader valves - new pressure switch (but a cheapie) - 550g of r134a gas / 50ml of pag46 oil and 7.5ml of leak sealer - All this work done before leak test and re-gas after leak test and a 45 min vacuum of moisture - cooled down to green on vent thermometer. All seemed fine - rad fan at half speed (was 34c outside) did not notice if compressor cycled on/off.

Current @ 16c outside and light rain

compressor does not cycle off at all - clutch is not jammed as works via the a/c switch and when off a/c clutch disconnects, a/c stops being cold. - verified visually and audible click , idle rise, when a/c engaged rad fan on but at FULL speed for about 30 seconds before it goes off , the outside of a/c pipe under bonnet is also frozen - this is only noticeable change. a/c pressure 25 psi approx running - going to check with another gauge

if I did not have vent thermometer I would not know temp and just think a/c really cold...

now i have original pressure switch so can put back, another gauge on a/c manifold to check pressure reading, and a hand held point temperature gun to check vent temp.

my question is that is there, or where is the internal temperature sensor?

am i just being paranoid, and as in the 2-3 years of owing car a/c only worked for around 10 weeks - did I inherit a basket case / unknown fault with a/c....
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Vehicle should have an expansion valve just at the inlet to the evaporator - this governs the amount of liquid refrigerant that can enter the evaporator so as to prevent freezing ................. sounds as if it stuck open allowing liquid through and effectively over cooling - this could be one issue - will find my other post where I mentioned the importance to only ever fill till you have HP side at around 5C equivalent pressure above current ambient............. if you are way higher you have too much refrigerant circulating and can end up flooding the evaporator and worst case pump when governing mechanics dont work

Sounds like the thermostat (if you actually have one fitted) is not seeing evaporator temp and is not switching ............. dont know the type of AC you have, but there are AC systems with continuous running pumps, no thermostats to switch pumps and only the expansion valve governing the evaporator to prevent freezing.

That 25psi - assume thats a mechanical gauge on the LP side connected? .......... that should not be that low if all the mechanical bits are working - soon as the evaporator starts freezing up, less cooling gets to vents and pipe to pump freezes up .........

With the -6C outlet in the vent, what is the scanners reading for the HP side pressure?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
not able to work on car till Tuesday now, but I weighed in the R134a and I put in 560g - book is 550g -/+ 35g, but I allowed 10g for bleeding air from hoses.
this is manual a/c single button on/off type and the filling port is the single port type, and so only able to read this pressure. - will double check Tuesday.
cant get the delphi to connect to a/c as its lists it as climate control not manual a/c , but on a full scan it did find and report my original df232 fault and cleared it once i put a cheap eBay switch on............ i'm putting original back Tuesday!!! my icarsoft is all boxed up as for sale, I have new version on order...

I will just use with no a/c till Tuesday, and re examine the problems then.

a quick scan through haynes only shows the climate control with a internal temperature sensor... will confirm later as never trust that book...
 

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Sorry had to zoom out and help a friend with some excess beer problem yesterday.

Have to admit I have not yet had to strip and inspect my own Scenic II (JM1B) with the same single button AC system as yours, so cannot talk facts as to what exactly is found fitted and how the specific control system is set-up to work. I also have Dialogsys and Visu and its about as useless as can be imo wrt the AC - no details at all other than the stuff in the engine bay (not that I can find anyway)

The HP side refrigerant pressure you can find in the injection computer (not in the climate control or whatever computer) - its PR037 in injection computer, and according to MR-366-X84-17B050$TOC.mif V10 (Basically X84 model injection functional description of computer) ET079, 088, 004, 674 off the injection computer governs via UCH the AC pump authorization.

In Visu I can see a component 1337 - its drawn as a box with a transistor icon on it and a 10A fuse icon - this is in series with the AC pump clutch and from the above notes I would say sits in UCH, and the other stuff involved is the injection computer 120, the "passenger compartment computer" 645 and the "air conditioning control panel" 319.

So ito what EXACTLY governs the AC temp in our specific cars its impossible to say with only what I have available as reference, but it will be one of either a temp sensor via UCH switching the pump or an expansion valve.

Questions to now get answered:

Is yours fitted with a mechanical expansion valve? (fitted right where HP line goes through firewall into the evaporator - big block of aluminum) ................. if not then I guess you must have a sick UCH or a temp sensor circuit on the evaporator coil speaking to the UCH that is sick (connection, cable or actual sensor)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
gotta admit been looking at partsorq exploded diagrams for a expansion valve and or orifice tube and not seen if or where it is.... will have a read up / search over weekend.
 
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