Independent Renault Forums banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Folks, First time user so be gentle.

The problem is this, The wife's 2004 Espace 1.9dci began having intermittent engine power loss which was rectified by releasing the accelerator and re applying. Over the course of a couple of weeks this became more regular and finally ended up with the car at the side of the road (with the four kids). Had the car towed to an Independent renault specialist who checked it over but said he could not say what the problem was without some serious bills but suspected it was either turbo and/or EGR problem. I had the car towed back to my local garage (about 100 miles) as i had bought the car from them about a year earlier. I had checked a few forums and found that the egr was a very common thread and the garage sent the car to a former renault mechanic who confirmed the common egr problems with renault diesels. So i had the egr replaced ( rather than just cleaned). No improvement of the power loss. once again the garage sent the car to the renault specialist who could only suspect a turbo problem so i fitted a reconditioned turbo- Surprise Surprise the problem is still there.
i have tried some of the solutions put up for similar problems on the forum and i will list them below. and after installing the new turbo it only kicks in at about 2500rpm.

So I am hoping that there is someone out there who has had/or seen a similar problem to this and has found a solution that my mechanics are missing.

To Summarize on the work already done
EGR - Replaced with new
Turbo- Reconditioned unit installed and intercooler was cleaned out.
MAF- Unplugged and driven - drove as if the turbo was not there. drives better when plugged in but intermittent power loss is still there and the turbo only kicks in at about 2500rpm.

A couple of points of note that may or may not be useful.
When started the car idles without any problem but can cut out at very low revs and speed ( at a junction / or parking etc.) once again intermittently.

The car has serious problems with steep hills. I live at the top of a steep hill and have to drop to first just to get the revs up to make it up the hill.

There are a lot of air bubbles in the fuel line at the primer pump but i am told it was pressure tested and came back fine.

The car has not shown any warning signals on the dash when this power loss issue happens but i have yet to take it to renault to get a diagnostic test done on it. both independent mechanics have said there were no codes pulled when they plugged in to get them.

Some of the other post suggested a power cable that runs beside the Gearbox could be damaged or corrosion at the ecu connectors. ???

my mechanic thinks it may be a fault in the fuel sender unit in the tank but does not know enough about this type of car to be certain?

I am open to any suggestions or comments and will appreciate any that are helpful (don't worry I have already considered a can of petrol and a match more than once)

Thanks
Dessyboy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Hello Folks, First time user so be gentle.

The problem is this, The wife's 2004 Espace 1.9dci began having intermittent engine power loss which was rectified by releasing the accelerator and re applying. Over the course of a couple of weeks this became more regular and finally ended up with the car at the side of the road (with the four kids). Had the car towed to an Independent renault specialist who checked it over but said he could not say what the problem was without some serious bills but suspected it was either turbo and/or EGR problem. I had the car towed back to my local garage (about 100 miles) as i had bought the car from them about a year earlier. I had checked a few forums and found that the egr was a very common thread and the garage sent the car to a former renault mechanic who confirmed the common egr problems with renault diesels. So i had the egr replaced ( rather than just cleaned). No improvement of the power loss. once again the garage sent the car to the renault specialist who could only suspect a turbo problem so i fitted a reconditioned turbo- Surprise Surprise the problem is still there.
i have tried some of the solutions put up for similar problems on the forum and i will list them below. and after installing the new turbo it only kicks in at about 2500rpm.

So I am hoping that there is someone out there who has had/or seen a similar problem to this and has found a solution that my mechanics are missing.

To Summarize on the work already done
EGR - Replaced with new
Turbo- Reconditioned unit installed and intercooler was cleaned out.
MAF- Unplugged and driven - drove as if the turbo was not there. drives better when plugged in but intermittent power loss is still there and the turbo only kicks in at about 2500rpm.

A couple of points of note that may or may not be useful.
When started the car idles without any problem but can cut out at very low revs and speed ( at a junction / or parking etc.) once again intermittently.

The car has serious problems with steep hills. I live at the top of a steep hill and have to drop to first just to get the revs up to make it up the hill.

There are a lot of air bubbles in the fuel line at the primer pump but i am told it was pressure tested and came back fine.

The car has not shown any warning signals on the dash when this power loss issue happens but i have yet to take it to renault to get a diagnostic test done on it. both independent mechanics have said there were no codes pulled when they plugged in to get them.

Some of the other post suggested a power cable that runs beside the Gearbox could be damaged or corrosion at the ecu connectors. ???

my mechanic thinks it may be a fault in the fuel sender unit in the tank but does not know enough about this type of car to be certain?

I am open to any suggestions or comments and will appreciate any that are helpful (don't worry I have already considered a can of petrol and a match more than once)

Thanks
Dessyboy
Hello Dessyboy...
Wow ..i thought i had worries with my car at air bubbles in the fuel pipe....
I hope that a great machanic can help ypou further....
Its so frustrating when even specailists dont know the fault huh?
I shall keep looking into your post to see if you get the answer you need...
Good Luck....I bet your wife is pulling her hair out too....
Someone will suss it soon ....!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
hi
have you had the car on any diagnostic :confused:
Hello Mersey MasterTech...
When the machanic came to my house a few days ago that is what i asked him to do?
But he said he could see the air bubbles and that would have been the cause?
I thought that a diagnostic test would pin point the problem ?
So do you think i should ask him to come back and do the test?
:confused:
When i rang him and told him that the air bubbles wont go even after constant pumping he said i have to be persistant?
I was very persistandt to the point of killing the battery, which i have fully charged again?
No garage wants to touch my car as its all electrical ? No garrage likes to deal with my Espace...:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi, I went through the same episode. We finally seem to have found the answer.... The inlet manifold may be cracked or not sealing. this may cause pressure to go up in the engine and put pressure on the pistons which causes more extreme temperatures and strain on the turbo.

pulling away, there is no power but when the turbo kicks in it seems fine. I would advise that you have this sorted out because it could definately blow the engine.

Good luck:d
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Thank you for your reply....
I have desided to sell my much loved car now as I have seen another smaller car a Renault Laguna 1.8 sport.....
The Espace takes up to much cash for me really!
£400 i hope t0 get for her as to a mechanic she will be a great runner!This will enable me to buy my new one...
So i am thinking of advertizing her next week?
Have a great day.....:eek::eek:




Hi, I went through the sAme episode. We finally seem to have found the answer.... The inlet manifold may be cracked or not sealing. this may cause pressure to go up in the engine and put pressure on the pistons which causes more extreme temperatures and strain on the turbo.

pulling away, there is no power but when the turbo kicks in it seems fine. I would advise that you have this sorted out because it could definately blow the engine.

Good luck:d
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I would be interested to know if you have sorted your problem.

Any air bubbles in the fuel system are bad and I would suspect a dodgy pipe or pipe connection even a problem with the tank or tank breather. Try it with the fuel cap open, preferably not with a full tank.:confused:

By this time you've probably fixed it or gone for the can of petrol solution but I would be interested, thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Hello C3....
No i have given up , as no one seems to know whats wrong with it ?
I didnt bye the new car either as I need to sort out this one first I cant seem to sell it as I dont know whats wrong with it ?
:(
Thank you for your kindness ....
I would be interested to know if you have sorted your problem.

Any air bubbles in the fuel system are bad and I would suspect a dodgy pipe or pipe connection even a problem with the tank or tank breather. Try it with the fuel cap open, preferably not with a full tank.:confused:

By this time you've probably fixed it or gone for the can of petrol solution but I would be interested, thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Quick thoughts, based on old skool thinking.
It sounds like your fuel ssytem is not scavenging the bubbles through, and so may have a pump that is under-achieving. In which case, the ECU may schedule the injectors open, but little fuel will go in, and hence little power will be delivered.
Check the fuel rail pressure. Also check the fuel filter for metal chips; failing pump will shed bits which get caught there.

Weepoo's diagnosis seems unsound; a leaking manifold will allow air into the engine at tickover, that is not seen by the MAU, and so will under-fuel the engine. Add revs, and the turbo makes the manifold high pressure, so the leak goess the other way, and the engine is (slightly) over-fuelled. Neither of these would blow the engine; it just affects power and economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Quick thoughts, based on old skool thinking.
It sounds like your fuel ssytem is not scavenging the bubbles through, and so may have a pump that is under-achieving. In which case, the ECU may schedule the injectors open, but little fuel will go in, and hence little power will be delivered.
Check the fuel rail pressure. Also check the fuel filter for metal chips; failing pump will shed bits which get caught there.

Weepoo's diagnosis seems unsound; a leaking manifold will allow air into the engine at tickover, that is not seen by the MAU, and so will under-fuel the engine. Add revs, and the turbo makes the manifold high pressure, so the leak goess the other way, and the engine is (slightly) over-fuelled. Neither of these would blow the engine; it just affects power and economy.
Hello Tolac...
Thank you for your time I have sorned my car and i am totally fed up with it as so many machanics say something different every time :confused:
I will ask anothe machanic what you have suggested ....
Thank you so much...
God Bless You Agape
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hi. From what you describe I have had the same problem the last few months ultimately culminating in my car being towed to our local Renault dealership (where we had bought it 18 months previously). After £150 diagnostic work, they have come to the decision that it is due to corrosion to the ECU. Nearly £1000 to replace, but ~£250 to pull out, scrub the rust off and replace and cross fingers hoping it might have worked. I haven't gone ahead with either of these options as yet as they have also told me the car is at best worth £1300 at trade in if the problem is fixed...and its MOT is due next month!

We had experienced intermittent power loss which would eventually be resolved by turning off the engine and restarting. It most commonly occurred on hills. Called out the RAC the first time it happened and they felt it may have been water in the diesel filter as a warning light had appeared on the dash each time it lost power corresponding with "water in the diesel filter/ECU problem". Replacing the diesel filter made no difference.

Have you had any luck with resolving your problem?

Thanks, Cornish
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Hi. From what you describe I have had the same problem the last few months ultimately culminating in my car being towed to our local Renault dealership (where we had bought it 18 months previously). After £150 diagnostic work, they have come to the decision that it is due to corrosion to the ECU. Nearly £1000 to replace, but ~£250 to pull out, scrub the rust off and replace and cross fingers hoping it might have worked. I haven't gone ahead with either of these options as yet as they have also told me the car is at best worth £1300 at trade in if the problem is fixed...and its MOT is due next month

We had experienced intermittent power loss which would eventually be resolved by turning off the engine and restarting. It most commonly occurred on hills. Called out the RAC the first time it happened and they felt it may have been water in the diesel filter as a warning light had appeared on the dash each time it lost power corresponding with "water in the diesel filter/ECU problem". Replacing the diesel filter made no difference.

Have you had any luck with resolving your problem?

Thanks, Cornish
Hi Cornish

Thanks for your message I love my car and am pleased to say that I have got my Espace fixed finally.
It needed a new fuel pipe that was all? think someone may have tried to geet my fuel at some point?

I also had a new timing belt and got my heater sorted that was just an electrical fault..


Passed MOT with flying clours and i cant wait to tax her wednesday and get back behing her wheel...lol


I have a great machanic if you are interested?
There garage is in Gloucestershire so message me if you want details ok....


God Bless....x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Dear MissA, have you any idea which fuel pipe it was please. Have same issues without warning lights and would love to get it fixed

Thanks Mark
Hi Mark sorry for the late reply I have no idea what make or anything a garage did it and I didn't ask they had big problems though as it had an imobalizer on it :crazy: I hope that you get yours fixed? I love my car so much as she is so handy for everything,glad I kept her now :d
God Bless x
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
96 Posts
Quick thoughts, based on old skool thinking.
It sounds like your fuel ssytem is not scavenging the bubbles through, and so may have a pump that is under-achieving. In which case, the ECU may schedule the injectors open, but little fuel will go in, and hence little power will be delivered.
Check the fuel rail pressure. Also check the fuel filter for metal chips; failing pump will shed bits which get caught there.

Weepoo's diagnosis seems unsound; a leaking manifold will allow air into the engine at tickover, that is not seen by the MAU, and so will under-fuel the engine. Add revs, and the turbo makes the manifold high pressure, so the leak goess the other way, and the engine is (slightly) over-fuelled. Neither of these would blow the engine; it just affects power and economy.
Bit late, but never mind! I suspect the above theory also has a flaw, viz;- if the turbo increases manifold pressure (which is a correct assumption), and the leak is still there, this will result in a lower than expected pressure, and less fuel than with a higher manifold pressure will be injected as a result. Net result is the same, because the turbo cannot compensate for the pressure drop by spinning faster to make up the difference in pressure, and it will of course spin slower as the exhaust gases which drive it will be lower pressure/volume/velocity. All other things being normal! (Normal being something of an abstract concept with Renaults). BTW, the leaking inlet manifold is a common bogey on these vehicles, too. IIRC, it is a plastic part. Hmmm.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
Bit late, but never mind! I suspect the above theory also has a flaw, viz;- if the turbo increases manifold pressure (which is a correct assumption), and the leak is still there, this will result in a lower than expected pressure, and less fuel than with a higher manifold pressure will be injected as a result. Net result is the same, because the turbo cannot compensate for the pressure drop by spinning faster to make up the difference in pressure, and it will of course spin slower as the exhaust gases which drive it will be lower pressure/volume/velocity. All other things being normal! (Normal being something of an abstract concept with Renaults). BTW, the leaking inlet manifold is a common bogey on these vehicles, too. IIRC, it is a plastic part. Hmmm.
The turbo runs in a closed loop control system; there is a pressure sensor in the output from the intercooler, and this signal drives the VVT on the turbo to spin at the appropriate speed.
Until the engine runs out of the control range, this control produces a nice steady pressure at the inlet manifold. (My turbo currently has a whistle, and so you can hear the control logic working; slight overshoot on the initial setup, and eventually droops at high revs, but a good solid control through the rest of the working range)
In order to drop out of the control range, the leak from the inlet manifold would have to be enormous, and so the hissing of escaping air would become noticeable, even at stationary (once the turbo cuts in). And, unless your car has no seepage of oil, this leakage would also result in an oily mess. (Again, my car consumes less than a dipstick between changes, but when I had a leak in the turbo outlet line, it showed up quickly by the oily traces. One of the "benefits" of running a clean engine compartment.)

So I would suggest the old-skool logic still applies. It is pretty broad brush-stroke, so needs a paradigm change to become wrong.
And it only dealt with relative leakage; slight under and over fuelling as a result of relative pressure for the manifold. Even if the turbo drops out of full control, the leakage of the measured air would still over-fuel the engine, even with reduced turbo boost. It is the MAF that decides how much fuel, after all.
Anon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hello Dessyboy...
Wow ..i thought i had worries with my car at air bubbles in the fuel pipe....
I hope that a great machanic can help ypou further....
Its so frustrating when even specailists dont know the fault huh?
I shall keep looking into your post to see if you get the answer you need...
Good Luck....I bet your wife is pulling her hair out too....
Someone will suss it soon ....!
Hey there l am having exactly the same problems just had it serviced hoping that would fix the issue this is a terrible car, never again will I buy a renault!
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top