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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, took my 2000 Scenic II RXE Auto for a cambelt change. The garage told me they turned the engine over by hand but when they started it there was a nasty noise. This is a "critical' engine according to Renault, which means if the timing is wrong all the valves are bent. They said they may have to send the head away to a machine shop fo new valve guides

The garage has been good about it and lent us an auto courtesey car. What I am concerned about is will they do a good repair, and will faults occur after months due to a poor repair e.g. were the pistons, rings etc. damaged?

What can you suggest when I go to pick the car up (it's been 3.5 weeks since the nasty noise). I was thinking of a letter stating what happened and a 1 year guarantee.

Thank you
 

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Hi nafuk

Sorry to hear the garage made a mess of the timing belt job.
A courtesy car is the least i would expect....try for a free repair.

I do not know about the legal side of things though hopefully when other members read your post more advice will be offerred.

It is a lesson to all budding mechanics if your not sure get advice or leave it to the experts.

:) :)
 

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They should repair for nowt,anyway!.It's their c#ck up so they are liable for the costs.

I doubt very much that the pistons are damaged,but it is quite an involved job to remove the cylinder head and replace the effected valves.I don't know what level of competence your garage has,but give them a chance and see how it goes.If there are problems afterwards,then it is down to them to put them right.If your still not happy with the repair,take it elsewhere and send the first garage the bill!

Good luck and let us know the out come.:)
 

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Hi Nafuk, Broadly speaking "in law" a person or organisation is responsible for their negligence which would seem to be the case in these circumstances. As for quality of repair it would be best if an independent qualified engineering assessor were involved. My advice would be in this case to contact your car insurers as you may have legal cover - if not a quick word with your solicitor may help. Whilst I am not a solicitor I believe any damage caused by their negligence is their responsibilty to fix without any cost or ensuing loss to yourself. Don't delay as it could harm your case. Good Luck:)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you for the replies.

I guess they will ask me to pay since I took it in for a cambelt change and they have done this, but just taken 3.5 weeks (so far) to complete the work. OF course they will pay for the extra work. I am just concerned about future problems that may arise because of their hamfisted approach to the cambelt change.

What would you say when you went to pick up the car?
 

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Hi Nafuk - what would I say - "you'll be hearing from my solictor" - usually puts the wind up them. A neighbour of mine had a belt go on his Laguna about 18 months ago. Garage removed cylinder head and replaced valves etc., - he thought it was good job - but to me it just didn't sound right afterwards. Just after Xmas 2006 he called to my dooor one night - my engines of a cylinder he cries and when removing number one spark plug it was oiled up. To cut a long story short he had the head removed and there was minor dents on one of the pistons and the piston rings had broken on that cylinder. This damage had been done at the time his belt broke. The cost of replacing the entire engine or having it repaired was not cost effective. He now drives a Vauxhall. Take my advice get help from your insurers, motoring organisation or solicitor ASAP. The pistons should be expertly examined before the head goes back on.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Update

Got the car back last Thursday after the garge had it for 5 weeks. They told me they had to put a new battery in as the old one had gone dead. The following Wednesday, after filling with pertol, the car would not start and I had to get a jump start. Next day it just about started but I noticed warning lights for service, airbag and antilock brakes(?) were lit. Phoned the garge and they came and took it a way for a look on Friday (today). Phoned me later today to say it needs a new alternator and because it is nothing to do with the original fault I have to pay. So just a coincidence? Noticed whilst getting the jump start a wiring harness holder bolt sheared off on the engine block, covers not replaced and wires not attached to holders. Bear in mind this car has given us 7 years of fault free motoring, regularly serviced etc.

I told the garge I am taking legal advice and will get back to them. What would you do?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for the reply. They will charge for the replacement alternator. I told them I was not happy with this.
 

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I maybe wrong but from reading on here and my own experience i always feels as though when the dealer has fixed something for free, you have to go back again a few weeks later to get something else fixed which is not free and probably costs more than what the replaced for free last time. Maybe its just that good old coincidence popping up again?

Rant over!:crazy:
 

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Bent Valves

Hi Nafuk – Looks like you’ve hit more problems you weren’t expecting. As I have previously said you should seek legal advice on this matter as a number of aspects seem to be complicated. In order to clarify things you need to establish the facts and the situation seems to have 3 separate aspects each of which need to be considered separately.

1. You contracted to have the timing belt renewed at an agreed price. In this case they seem to have done so.
2. During this work they were negligent and caused damage to the engine. It appears they have admitted liability and agreed to make the necessary repairs for the damage they caused free of charge which they appear to have done albeit not to an acceptable standard.
3. Following the repairs other faults have subsequently occurred. Unless you can establish the subsequent faults can directly be attributed to their negligence they have no obligation to repair the subsequent faults free of charge.

In law we are all responsible for our negligence but it is necessary to establish a direct causal (to cause) link between the act of negligence and any consequential loss. Considering the situation you are in I feel you should seek legal advice as soon as possible.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you for the replies.

They want to charge me £230 to replace the alternator since they say it is nothing to do with the cambelt problem. To recap, they bent the valves whilst changing the cambelt, the engine and gearbox was removed, new valves, guides, valves reground etc. 5 days after getting the car back I experience difficult starting and need a few jump starts.
The car did the same journeys the week before the valve job (early morning, late night, with lights on) with no problems/warning lights. 5 days after getting the car back I need jump starts after using the lights and airbag, service and anti-lock brake warning lights are illuminated at low revs. It did start ok on a few occasions after needing the jump start.
My question is, do you think the alernator coincidentaly died whilst at the garge or could it have been damaged whilst at the garage?
 

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Personally i think something went pete-tong whilst it was in the garage and they should fix it all, this is my personal opinion and legally it maybe different, but like you say all those years of plain sailing with no problems and then they bodge the valves and then all this afterwards!!

How do we know they didnt put a different alternator in knowing that you would then come back and need it replacing, at a cost to yourself, so they can claw some of the money back from you that the had to lay out to fix your original problem?
 

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Bent valves and duff alternator

Hi Nafuk – Yes it is possible the alternator decided to expire at the same time as the repairs were being done but without knowing what has happened (the exact cause of why it failed) to the alternator it would be extremely difficult to prove otherwise. If it was checked out by a qualified auto-electrical engineer he/she may be able to establish the cause of failure and possibly prove it was due to negligence. I know this is really going to help to get the matter easily resolved but to purely speculate on what may have happened is going to help either. I notice you said the engine was removed for repairs – are you sure they didn’t replace the engine with another unit. I suggest you check the engine number is checked against the VIN number to rule out this possibility.:)
 

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Thank you for the replies.

They want to charge me £230 to replace the alternator since they say it is nothing to do with the cambelt problem. To recap, they bent the valves whilst changing the cambelt, the engine and gearbox was removed, new valves, guides, valves reground etc. 5 days after getting the car back I experience difficult starting and need a few jump starts.
The car did the same journeys the week before the valve job (early morning, late night, with lights on) with no problems/warning lights. 5 days after getting the car back I need jump starts after using the lights and airbag, service and anti-lock brake warning lights are illuminated at low revs. It did start ok on a few occasions after needing the jump start.
My question is, do you think the alernator coincidentaly died whilst at the garge or could it have been damaged whilst at the garage?
I suggest you try ConsumerDirect (Consumer Direct
They will give you advice on your position.
I used them to extract a free map update from Renault for my Carminat system. Just the mention of Consumer Direct and Trading Standards on a registered letter did the trick.

Try giving them a call - nothing to loose.

Ian
 

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hi m8:) sorry to hear about the hassle you've had(shower of ¤¤¤¤*oles):crazy: if it is the alternator you may find that the batts drained in the garage and some plonker has earthier charged it at 24 voltas or connected the+ and - the rong way round, which is very likely considering the mess of your car after the t-belt change.but this will be hard to prove.

you should stick to your guns and refuse to pay the bill as it was OK when it went in to be butchered. threaten them with trading standards and your local news paper, this usually works, but once they have repaired it they will probably tell you not to come back which is a bonus lol

i hope this has helped you in some way m8:) and lots of luck. alex
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you for your replies and support. I have contacted Consumer Direct and will be 'sticking to my guns' as far as not paying for the alternator.

Any more suggestions will be gratefully received.

Thank you
 
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