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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been plagued by an annoying problem with my grand scenic II 2006 1.5 diesel (106hp) for atleast a year or so.

The low batt. warning would come up once in a while. Sometimes disappearing then reappearing.
Even on the same trip.

Fitted a new batt.
Didn't help.

Time went by as I ignored the warning. This eventually lead to a flat battery.
Recharged with a mains charger and the low batt. warning would disappear.
until a few months later and the same pattern would occur. Flat batt.

Finally took it to the mechanic and he replaced the alternator, belt + tensioner.
Even replaced the aircon compressor as the clutch had seized.
The new alternator is a refurbished one bosch model (150AH).
The alternator multiplug is connected with 1 wire going to the UPC.
The old original alternator had 1 plug interface, the new one has a 2 plugs interface (2 wires).
This part worries me a bit. As now only one of the two connections are used.

I should also mention that cranking the engine is not running optimally.
The RPM during cranking seems low. Takes around 5sec. to start.
Maybe this starter issue is whole other problem or maybe it is somehow connected with the low batt. warning.
I did run the car for some time with a semi seized compressor clutch which caused the alternator belt to become very hot.
I guess this period could have taken its toll on the starter motor as it had to turn a alternator belt with a lot of friction on it - who knows ?
I did try and rule out the starter motor not getting enough juice during cranking. I did this simply by connecting another car (idling) with my battery using starter cables.
The cranking did not improve. This leads me to think the starter motor gets the sufficient juice but is maybe knackered.

Back to the low batt warning-
So I left the mechanic and I though everything was dandy -or so I thought.
Now after exactly a 10mins ride or even just running the car 10m idle the damned "low batt." warning would show its ugly face again.
It will not go away again. Atleast not until I restart the engine.
The warning message pattern has now changed substantially in reference to how the message initially would appear and disappear.
Before the alternator was replaced the message was intermittent now it apears after 10m.
So there is clearly a change in behaviour in terms of the low batt warning before and after replacing the alternator.
I guess the warning can represent different issues.


I think the new alternator did fix the issue with not charging properly.
But now the computer system in the car does not detect it.


my voltmeter shows 14v when engine is idling.
12.3v when engine off.
11v during cranking.
seems to charge ok.

The headlights nor any other electrical light seem do not dim when this low batt warning shows.

Renault CLIP (UPC) error codes are (red error codes, can not be cleared).

DF034 Alternatortype 1.DEF
1.DEF No Connection

DF007 Connection UPC-Alternator CO
-- 1.DEF communication interruption
-- CO: open circuit
-- CC: short circuit


What are my options here ?
1) Replacing the bosch alternator with an original Renault make and look the other way while I dish out 600£. Not an easy option on such an old car.
2) Ignore the warning, live with it -save the cash. But my fear is that it will cause possible havoc on the other electrical components on the car, ECU etc. Battery turning on fire because over charging ?
3) Have the ECU/UPC reprogrammed to the new alternator, if there is such an option even ?

Any help in the matter would be greatly appreciated.

regards
gibman
 

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Alternator is wrong one, do you have the original , and the original multiplug .
Not sure I am following the two wires and one wire, so bare with me here

This is what you put in your post

***The alternator multiplug is connected with 1 wire going to the UPC.
The old original alternator had 1 plug interface, the new one has a 2 plugs interface (2 wires). ***
Do you mean, the small signal ( Data ) wire here, and the new alternator has a place for two to be connected ( Pins/terminals ) and the old one only one,
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Alternator is wrong one, do you have the original , and the original multiplug .
Not sure I am following the two wires and one wire, so bare with me here

This is what you put in your post

***The alternator multiplug is connected with 1 wire going to the UPC.
The old original alternator had 1 plug interface, the new one has a 2 plugs interface (2 wires). ***
Do you mean, the small signal ( Data ) wire here, and the new alternator has a place for two to be connected ( Pins/terminals ) and the old one only one,
Thank you for your reply.

Yes, this is exactly the case here.
Found some technical docs on the car here that says something along the lines:

"The Protection and Switching Unit is linked to the alternator by a serial connection. The Protection and Switching Unit and the alternator communicate via this connection.
The alternator sends the Protection and Switching Unit the following signals: – Type of alternator: the Protection and Switching Unit configures itself according to the alternator specifications. "

and checking ...

"Connect the UPC-Alternator connection to the Protection and Switching Unit, and disconnect the alternator-side connection. 1st procedure Using an oscilloscope, check for a square pulse signal on the UPC-alternator connection. The test must not be carried out until the engine has been running for at least 10 minutes. Connect the oscilloscope between the UPC-alternator connection connector (on the alternator side) and a body earth. Adjust the oscilloscope as follows: – calibration: 5 V/div – Time base: 500 µs/div Check for a square pulse signal on the oscilloscope, as shown in the diagram below: <image>"

Lovely ...

regards
gibman
 

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Discussion Starter #4
the old original alternator has been sent back to the spareparts supplier as it was an exchange unit.
I dont know about the old plug - I guess the mechanic has it.

I'm pretty pissed as the mechanic just fitted this alternator and soldered another wire on a suitable 2pins plug it in order to fit he new alternator.

It's not so easy to ***** and moan entirely as the alternator was not supplied by the mechanic. I bought it on my own initiative from another place - as I have a family member with access to good prices for quality spare parts.

Now it's probably an uphill battle getting the alternator refunded.
 

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Experience is expensive. There is no way around that. I've made a few for sure.
Very ( would be a rich man If I had never made mistakes )
Biggest becoming a mechanic, should have carried on being a porn star.
It had its ups and downs but overall not a hard job LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Here's the only photo I have of the old alternator as it has been sent back to the supplier.
8200 390 676
14v 150ah
At the lower right part of the image I can se an oval shaped connector.
My mech seems to recall it only had 1 male pin on the alternator side of the connection.
I have a hard time believing this, as all photos on the web that I have stumbled upon show 2 pins.

182942




the new but wrong alternator looks like this:
182944


It has a square shaped connector...


So Im gonna go for yet another alternator with the part number: 8200 390 676
also making sure it has an oval shaped connection.
but question now goes: should I look for a 1 pin version or 2 pin alternator ?
Not even sure a one pin exists.

edit:
This p1202 connector looks like the real mccoy here.

182952


It talks about the BSS1 BSS2 BSS3 serial protocols that is needed in order for the ECU to comm. with the alternator.
The article also states that all bosch alternators speak BSS3, but I guess a refurbished unit could speak BSS2 and thus having the issue of the ECU not being able to talk to it, as it speaks BSS1.

I'm not even sure the new bosch refurbished unit I have even speaks any of the BSS dialects and on what pin ?
I've tried both pins. No dice on either.

/gibman
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks for the fine photo :)

been looking at the data on the culprit alternator.
the connector is a DFM type.
it juses PWM to signal to the ECU.

The alternator I need is the COM type. More sophisticated stuff :)
A two way serial connection between the alt. and the ecu. Like a network cable between to computers :)

I'm going to have the bugger replaced and will let you know the outcome.

/gibman
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just a quick follow up here.

Replaced the wrong alt. with the correct one. Now the Low batt. warning message has gone :)

The new alt. had the correct 1 male pin plug (COM type).
The wrong alt. had the 2 pin DFM type. It is very incompatible with the COM type. One is a serial connection the other uses PWM for communication.

The electronic side of the alternator looked a bit different to the old original alternator.The new one was even a valeo branded one.
The old one was a bosch.
Both things worried me. But hey presto. It worked. So I guess you can just ignore the difference in looks and brand.
Obviously the mounting holes etc. should match the old one.

I hope this info can help other folks with similar issues.

When swapping out the alt. Do yourself a favour and buy the new alt. based on the OEM code of the old alt.
Buying the alt. in advance, based on the reg. plate number, as I did, is very risky in terms of getting the correct one.
So save yourself the hassle and wait until your take off the old alt. :)

FYI The low batt. warning message will appear in a number of different circumstances.
  • wrong/missing connection from the ECU to the alternator
  • too low voltage measured on the batt. while driving.
  • probably more.
 
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