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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, am thinking about getting a towbar fitted or possibly buying/fitting itit myself. Any product recommendations/ prices etc appreciated.

From what I've read, sounds like the mechanical bit is easy enough but not sure about electrics.

My planned use is for a cycle carrier and occasional towing of a boat.


Also - managed to bugger up the forward 12v socket in the car (a plug fell apart and left bits stuck inside...) is replacing this something that can be done easily by someone with no previous knowledge of car electrics?

Thanks for any advice.
Adam
 

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Hi i fitted a towbar to my 2.0 16v Espace 2002 with a A1 Towbar and it cost me £110.00 with twin electrics which you will not need,i got it from Harrisons up here in Scotland on line nextday delivery with no hiccups at all and even had the idiots guide with it on fitting.The only problem i had was i got my friend to do the electrics for me but he did tell me to the normal public it would of cost around £70 to wire up the 2 plugs.

As for your socket in the car this should be a very easy job for a novice to do i hope this helps all the best Doanld.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for that - looks easy enough - will buy one and fit it. There is an auto electric place near me that should do the rest - will ask them for a price first just in case.
 

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Thanks for that - looks easy enough - will buy one and fit it. There is an auto electric place near me that should do the rest - will ask them for a price first just in case.
Hi great let us know how you get on all the best Doanld
 

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Hi Stylo, be careful with the electrics, and use someone that really understands CAN-BUS high and low, which is used in the Espace IV, I'm sure its different to all previous models and versions, even if CanBus was used in later Espace3's.

There is a multipin connector in the LHS storage area in the Espace IV, (you'll have to remove the panel work to get access.)

You should use the Renault wiring kit (available as 1N or 1N+1S or 13 pin) or similar so that the car recognises the system and enables the indicator buzzer, disables the fog lights etc and if fitted with rear parking sensors, adjusts the detection "cloud" to allow for the tow bar, under no circumstances should you hack into the loom and use "scotchloc" or splice connectors, it will cause problems with the cars wiring and electrical system.

Hope it helps :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks that's helpful. Will see what the Renault garage will charge to supply the kit and do the wiring.
 

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Hi as Truckbusuk has said do use someone that can indeed do the job i did not use Renault or use there looms as this was a complete fortune but i did us a good spark to do the job i was fortunate thats what my friend does for i living and i also used backup relays because of my secondary plug but Renault do stress there is no need to use these as there is enought back up already built into the car but i used them any why thats up to you.I also have the indicator audible sensor as well so you know if the indicators are working correctly on the trailer unit but they are not legal requirement i hope this helps all the best Donald.
 

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Thanks that's helpful. Will see what the Renault garage will charge to supply the kit and do the wiring.

Dont know what the labour would be ... but its a straight plug in ... so knowing the dealers ... as small fortune ... the wiring kit for mine which was the N1+S1 was £59 +VAT from the dealer and included the mounting plate, the sockets, "Renault Covers" ... wow :rolleyes: , the cable harness and fitting instructions and rubber body plugs, plus the extra relays for fridges etc ... I dont tow with mine I use it for a bike carrier, but I've had no electrical issues, the rear fog lights are killed when attached and the hazard lights feed through plus you dont need to add the additional parts for the buzzer (I'm sure an audible or visable signal is a legal requirement for the indicators .. but I'm happy to be wrong on that one :) )... + the "cloud" adjustment for the parking sensors is ace as I have a fixed swan neck bar.

I should have said the fogs are killed on the car, but feed through to the lights on the carrier ... oops

As Donald says whoever you get to do it make sure they actually know what they are doing.

:)
 

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Before you proceed, check out your local Renault dealer.

No, I'm not a big fan either, but this may be good.

I was at my local dealer last week and saw a summer promotions brochure.

Here, they had the towbar, electrics and a 3 bicycle carrier - for a pretty good price (I can't remember, but it was in the £300-£350 mark). All this was including the fitting and re-programming the lights warning module, etc.

I'm sorry I can't remmeber the exact price, because I was in shock over what they were telling me (about something else), but I do remember that the price was pretty good - bordering on fantastic - for Renault!!!

Wish I had paid more attention.

This was at my local dealer in Ilford, not sure if it's nationwide.
 

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We've gone over this before, and I'm still far from convinced that any of the Renault road lights are multiplex. Scare stories of multiplexed lighting on French cars seem to originate from Peugeot and Citroen. As far as I'm aware, Renault haven't followed this trend, at least on their mainstream models.

Does the official loom of the Espace appear to have anything clever in it? The one for the Laguna has the rear fog cut-out (operated through an extra contact on the socket) and the obligatory indicator buzzer. Apart from that, it just wires straight into the lights and from an electrical point of view, is no different to using Scotchloks.

Still, if the official loom is that cheap, then go for it. It'll be worth it just to simplify finding the rear fog light feed if the lamp is in the boot lid. I'm intreagued by the idea of it adjusting the 'cloud' for the parking sensors. That might be handy with a cycle carrier on the back, though it's kind of redundant with a trailer. I have the parking sensors on the Lag, and having the towball in place (it's a detachable) doesn't intefere with the sensors anyway. Maybe the Espace is different, but I thought it was only silly things like the Ford Galaxy (with three sensors, one of which ends up right behind the towbar) that had problems.

The lighter socket should be a doddle. It'll have a plug on the back rather than being hard-wired, so it'll just be a case of unplugging the old one, removing and replacing the socket, and then putting the plug back on the new one.
 

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Hi Horatio, the Renault loom, has a couple of sealed "boxes" and multipin plugs attached to it.

I believe some of the lighting on the EspaceIV is on the CAN-BUS High side of the system, eg the Xenons and anything else connected via the lighting computer but I'm not sure what else ...

1/ the cutout for the fog lights is programmed, as there is no extra contact in the socket.

2/ the parking sensors "cloud" is adjusted by the fitting of the renault loom, the reason being if the bar is of the fixed type then there needs to be an adjustment otherwise the towball will hit something before the sensors pick it up as its obviously sticking further out than the bumper ... its obviously not needed if the bar is removable.

I posted some info on this before ... cant remember if it was under the parking sensors or under towbars, I'll have a look.

You still require to "disable" the sensors via the dash switch if something is connected to the towbar otherwise you get a constant tone at all times, the point of the adjustment is so the bar doesnt cause problems as mentioned above.

Mine was fitted by Renault before delivery ... not sure if it was the Factory or Import Centre ... but it all works ... which suggests that it wasnt my supplying dealer who were awful .. but that another story:(
 

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The Espace loom certainly sounds a lot more high-tech than the Laguna one. I've actually dug out some pictures of the Laguna wiring that I took when I first bought the loom. There's really not a lot to it.

First off, here's the connector that intercepts the boot lid feed. The grey wire is for the reversing lights, and the other two are for the rear fog feed, including the cut-out (I forget which colour was supposed to be which, but they were wired incorrectly on the loom and I had to reverse them on the plug!)


Here's the light cluster connectors. They just intercept the feeds straight into the lamps.


Here's the only 'electronics' in the whole of the gubbins: A simple trailer flash relay.


And finally, here's the bunch of wires that go through the boot floor and into the 12N socket. Though the grey one (reversing lights) actually has to go to the 12S.


I still stand by my assertion that the Laguna doesn't need bypass relays or the official loom, but from what you're saying, it certainly sounds like the later Espaces need one or the other.
 

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Hi Horatio, thats the kind of kit I would have expected, looks like the one that was on my old Espace2.

When I ordered the EspaceIV I checked out the reversing sensors and towbars, as I didnt want to have to go to the extra expense of ordering a quick release bar if the sensors were to be a problem.

So I practiced with a mates Espace which had parking sensors and a bog roll tube and a tennis ball which we gaffer taped on to the bumper .... the sensors went mad .... I spent ages with an RTE (several visits infact) before he discovered the cloud adjustment and the Renault harness kit .... thats why I went down the Renault route for the bar and electrics.

I had also spoken to Brink and Witter ... who at the time (May 2004) stated that the EspaceIV wiring kit was not ready, and therefore they wouldnt recomend their bars at the time as the wiring system was a problem ... typically just after delivery(September 2004) both companies released EspaceIV wiring kits ... doh!

I've had a look under the autochanger in the boot (when it was away getting repaired) and you can see the boxes, connections and harness, but it certainly looks more complex than your photos ...

Maybe if Stylo goes down the Renault route he could post some pics before it all gets fitted. :)
 

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Truckbusuk,

Not really anything worthwhile to add - just got me interested in tow bars.

When I bought my Espace it already had a towbar fitted - Witter, which can be a good or a bad thing i.e. what has it towed? It would have been fitted after 2004.

Intersted to hear about the cloud adjustement-makes sense- only thought about the fact the parking sensors need to be swithed off when towing - I do find though every time the engine is switched off/on you have to disable them again. Mine is a fixed type ball, but looks like it could be replaced by a detachable towbar as the tube part is seperately held on with 2 bolts. When I first looked at the car I did,nt think it had the electrics - but they are tucked away underneath.

I noticed the rear bumber has a number of lugs on it that do not attach to anything - could be because it is a witter.

Right I will stop wittering on - no real substance to my reply - just a bit of banter.

I used to tow a 24 ft twin axle caravan with a 2 litre petrol - still suprised clutch never went. Don't have a caravan any more, but did pull a 4 metre twin axle trailer with quite a bit of stuff in it - pulled very well, but had to stop looking at the mpg readout.

Nige
 

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Hi ns.thomson ... I must admit if I'm buying a 2nd hand car I tend to shy away if a towbar is fitted, as you dont know what has been done with it, knacked suspension, clutch, brakes, gearbox etc .... but I suspose if its looked after there should be no problem ... that said my last 4 cars have had a towbar, we use it for bike carriers, plus the biggest thing I've ever towed was a Ifor Williams 4 wheel trailer ... and I cant really see myself with a caravan ... cant tow them at 90 you see :d

To be honest the best thing about the fixed towbar is it protects the rear bumper from my nice neighbors, who appear to be under the illusion that a rear bumper is there as a stop marker when parking :steam: ... its amazing how many of them have a towball shaped piece of their front number plate missing .... I've even got the rear bumper from a neighbours daughters boyfriends Corsa ... nicely lowered it was ... until he managed to hook it over the towball and then tried to pull away .... amazing bang .... and the bumper was left in the road .. it was very amusing his parents trying to deny it was their son that had hit my car ... until I pointed out the bumper and numberplate still attached ... they dont talk much now :rolleyes:
 

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Hi ns.thomson ... I must admit if I'm buying a 2nd hand car I tend to shy away if a towbar is fitted, as you dont know what has been done with it, knacked suspension, clutch, brakes, gearbox etc .... but I suspose if its looked after there should be no problem ... that said my last 4 cars have had a towbar, we use it for bike carriers, plus the biggest thing I've ever towed was a Ifor Williams 4 wheel trailer ... and I cant really see myself with a caravan ... cant tow them at 90 you see :d

To be honest the best thing about the fixed towbar is it protects the rear bumper from my nice neighbors, who appear to be under the illusion that a rear bumper is there as a stop marker when parking :steam: ... its amazing how many of them have a towball shaped piece of their front number plate missing .... I've even got the rear bumper from a neighbours daughters boyfriends Corsa ... nicely lowered it was ... until he managed to hook it over the towball and then tried to pull away .... amazing bang .... and the bumper was left in the road .. it was very amusing his parents trying to deny it was their son that had hit my car ... until I pointed out the bumper and numberplate still attached ... they dont talk much now :rolleyes:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: iam in stitches over the bumper
 

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I like it - do you keep a tow ball cover on - or what that be too tame! I've also never thought of a good reason to remove the towbar. However my wife did back into her friend's mx5 damaging the number plate - when she phoned m to ask for the price of a number plate I did ask if there was anything left to hang it on. Anyway - it did turn out to be skillful driving as only the number plate was damaged.

I once did a similar thing (a long time ago) - reversed right up to my boss's car, tight space, intentionally touched it, but was shocked when I pulled forward to see his car follow me. I had to get someone over to lift up the bumper while I pulled forward. Ran to get some tools while my collegue distracted the boss and hammered the bumper back into shape (chrome - told you it was a long time ago) I don't think he ever found out - but I did'nt work there for long!!

Of course I'm far more honest these days.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Amusing stories. I have another one for you -

called 2 local Renault garages parts 280+vat, fitting 3hrs at 90+vat Total = £650.

Ebay towbars at 120 + electric fitting cost at a local specialist seems a good deal to me!
 

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Hi Stylo, I'd go back to them as Renault state in the latest accessories brochure ...

part 77 11 218 329 Espace swan neck towbar inc fitting and VAT £240 (£250 grand espace 77 11 219 805)
part 77 11 291 378 Espace Wiring loom inc fitting and VAT £130

Total inc fitting and VAT = £370

These are RENAULT prices .... ask the dealers what they are charging for ... :mad:

The prices are on the Renault Web site ....

Renault Accessories and Merchandise Brochures
 
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