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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I'm having problems starting my Grand Scenic 16 vvt from cold. She starts, but in the last few days she’ll shut off soon after and at the second time I start her I pump a little bit on the accelerator pedal to make her stay on. The only way I’ve found to get her to start “fine” at first time is to pump on the accelerator pedal, but I don’t think it will last forever nor it’s the right way to do it.

The car starts fine after a quick drive (even half a km is enough).

I’ve also noticed that a squeaky sound come from the car, I can hear it both standing and moving, but I can’t tell where it came from…

I already went through all this and the culprit was the dephaser pulley, below there’s the history of the services I’ve done.

At the end of 2018 I've replaced cam belt, water pump and all the other components that goes with them, then the car showed me oil light on middle of 2019 so I’ve changed dephaser pulley WITHOUT changing again cam belt since I though it wasn’t necessary after only a few kilometers and just 6 months.

Keeping the cam belt was at my own risk, but do you guys think this can be the cause of the problem?

What do you suggest to do? Right now change the car is out of question, but even take out another 800€ is not a great option…

Thanks.
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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If you have already properly cleaned the throttle body and had it relearn its stops..............

Disconnect the dephaser solenoid (you may get a dash moan but ignore it).
Now use the vehicle like you normally do for a few days and report what you experience here
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don’t have cleaned the throttle body, I’m not sure I can do it. Any suggestions on how to do it?

The test of disconnecting the dephaser solenoid is to check it if it’s faulty? What should I experience if it’s not faulty? Misfire?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you, but that seems a little bit out of range to me unfortunately.

Why you say that? I though the exact opposite: if the problem continue with solenoid disconnected then I have a faulty solenoid, am I missing something obvious?

Anyway, given that the solenoid is working properly, if I disconnect it I’ll not damage anything right? I’m not at home and I don’t want to risk too much…
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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No damage by disconnecting and you can drive like that permanently.

If you study the inner workings of the actual dephaser you will see why
f the problem continue with solenoid disconnected then I have a faulty solenoid, am I missing something obvious?
You cannot draw that conclusion at all - if you disconnect and it starts/idles reliably then you have one of 2 problems or even more!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I’ll do, thanks. And I’ll report how it goes with solenoid disconnected in the afternoon.
 

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Oil light on is big clue here, dephaser relies on good oil pressure, i'd would be looking at oil pressure and or oil pump and / or engine wear. my 1.6vvt use to start then stall, but then restart fine when dephasher was knackered. So i replaced it, in end I put a complete secondhand engine in, as it used more and more oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No damage by disconnecting and you can drive like that permanently.

If you study the inner workings of the actual dephaser you will see why

You cannot draw that conclusion at all - if you disconnect and it starts/idles reliably then you have one of 2 problems or even more!
I didn’t manage to get the solenoid disconnected at first time and the car didn’t start at first try, so at the second one I’ve pumped the accelerator “as usual”.

After 2km I stopped and retry to disconnect the solenoid, this time I did it, I’ve started her fine after 15 minutes being stopped. Now I’ve “check injection” message on dash, is this expected since the disconnection of solenoid?

I’ve also measured the resistance of the solenoid and there’re 8,7 ohm, does this confirm that the solenoid is ok?

Now I’ll leave her stopped a few hours and see how it goes s in the afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oil light on is big clue here, dephaser relies on good oil pressure, i'd would be looking at oil pressure and or oil pump and / or engine wear. my 1.6vvt use to start then stall, but then restart fine when dephasher was knackered. So i replaced it, in end I put a complete secondhand engine in, as it used more and more oil.
This was 2 years ago, after that I’ve checked at the garage and changed dephaser pulley, without changing cam belt, water pump and accessories since I did that only few months before.

Right now I’ve no lights on, only false start and a squeaky sound.

It seems strange to me that after 2.5 years and only 1 years of use with few kilometers done the dephaser pulley is already going and maybe also the cam belt…
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I’d like to add that at the end of 2018 I’ve also changed the spark plugs and in 2019 the oil.
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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I didn’t manage to get the solenoid disconnected at first time and the car didn’t start at first try, so at the second one I’ve pumped the accelerator “as usual”.

After 2km I stopped and retry to disconnect the solenoid, this time I did it, I’ve started her fine after 15 minutes being stopped. Now I’ve “check injection” message on dash, is this expected since the disconnection of solenoid?

I’ve also measured the resistance of the solenoid and there’re 8,7 ohm, does this confirm that the solenoid is ok?

Now I’ll leave her stopped a few hours and see how it goes s in the afternoon.
Yes - as I said already
Disconnect the dephaser solenoid (you may get a dash moan but ignore it).
I’ve also measured the resistance of the solenoid and there’re 8,7 ohm, does this confirm that the solenoid is ok?
No- Forget any other measurements for now
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, I’ve started the car after a few hours, so it was pretty cold and she doesn’t power off herself, but it wasn’t a fine start, it was a little bit shaky in my opinion. Can we already make any assumption?

In the meanwhile another light come on: check emission. Is this related to the disconnection of the solenoid?

And what about the squeaky sound? I know that I’m asking many things…
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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We need to be methodical and do one thing at a time:

1. As I said - you will get dash moans - ignore them if you disconnected the solenoid
2. "Shaky"??? ................... did the engine start on the first try? (irrespective of the perceived quality of idling afterwards)
3. Did it STAY idling then? .............(irrespective of the perceived quality of idling afterwards)

so it was pretty cold and she doesn’t power off herself,
What exactly does that mean - "doesn't power off"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi LvR,

1. Ok
2. Yes, the engine started at first try.
3. Yes, the engine stayed idle.

Usually when I start the car if I don’t “help” her with the accelerator pedal she’ll try to start, she maybe success at it, but then she can’t idling and power herself off, so I need to try again and usually at second try I use the accelerator to make her stay on.

Yesterday the car started and idled without issue. Today I’ve not yet make a test. I don’t know how to explain better than shaky tough…

I’ll update you in a few hours. Thanks.
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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Hi LvR,

1. Ok
2. Yes, the engine started at first try.
3. Yes, the engine stayed idle.

Usually when I start the car if I don’t “help” her with the accelerator pedal she’ll try to start, she maybe success at it, but then she can’t idling and power herself off, so I need to try again and usually at second try I use the accelerator to make her stay on.

Yesterday the car started and idled without issue. Today I’ve not yet make a test. I don’t know how to explain better than shaky tough…

I’ll update you in a few hours. Thanks.
No - your explanation now makes sense to me thanks.

So yes you do have a dephaser problem .................

The question now becomes this:

Do want to start working on an expensive list of stuff or do this the right way.

I would suggest leaving the solenoid disconnected and drive the thing till we progress down a sensible path (the messages are irrelevant and you anyway know the origin so just keep ignoring them) - just so its said - most of the cars on the road currently effectively run that way because they have no dephaser system (iow variable valve timing).

I would suggest the correct action to take here is firstly to investigate the oil pressure behaviour on the engine as @Nexxusone implied - the whole dephaser thing can be caused by bad oil pressure behaviour.
I would then strip and clean the throttle body as a priority anyway - the goal being to have an absolutely smooth and repeatable idle control with no shaking after a start (this while solenoid disconnected)

Once you get there we can progress on
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I’ve just tried to start the car and she failed to idle after quite a few seconds of struggling and big shake from the engine… then I’ve tried other 3 times without success nor shake thing and at fourth I helped her with the accelerator.

I don’t know how to check oil pressure, any suggestions? Then again I’m not sure I can do the cleaning myself, unfortunately…

But I’d also like to make a step back and ask you how could it be that the dephaser is going again after only 2 years and very low kilometers done? That make me think that maybe it’s going to keeping happen every now and then even if I’ll change it again, what do you think about it?

Thanks.
 

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Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
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The throttle body, if dirty, can cause these symptoms too - that's why I said leave the solenoid disconnected and tackle this first as priority................

If however, you are unable to do either the throttle body cleaning or the oil pressure behaviour investigation there is not much more I can suggest doing - perhaps get a friend/garage involved?
 
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