Independent Renault Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all, my 2007 RS Megane 175DCi 130k miles is whining in 6th gear and to a less extent 5th. It only whines when I'm on the gas, and only in the top two gears. Also the gearstick moves quite a bit when stationary or slow when I'm on the biting point - but I understand that is fairly normal. Other than the noise it drives fine. I am minimising using 6th gear at all now, and if I keep the speed down the whining isn't so noticable in 5th. I won't be able to fix it for another 6 weeks or so as I'm moving house.

My first question is how long do you think I have if I carry on babying it? And if/when it does fail is it likely to be catastrophic gearbox death or just knock out 5th and 6th gear?

Next question is - repair or replace the gearbox? I can't find anyone selling bearings for the PK4 box. And I'm unsure whether an idiot in a shed with a collection of hammers and crowbars can replace gearbox bearings. There are a couple of used gearboxes on ebay - but obviously a bit of an unknown. How much variation is there on the PK4 gearboxes? I think mine is a PK4-013 - could I use others, or is that asking for trouble?

I'm still undecided whether to change dmf/clutch/slave regardless, or see what they look like when I'm there - guess it depends how much of a pain its to get the gearbox out...

I've read ssashton's excellent write up of his gearbox removal - different car, engine and gearbox, but otherwise identical! I can't believe there is going be any more room in the Megane's engine bay than the laguna :crazy:

ps I've changed the gear oil and it looked very clean. Also changed rear gearbox mount to try help wobbly gearstick - neither made any difference!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
I've got the same engine and gearbox in my Espace and recently had the exact same issue.

5th and 6th gear whine is one of the bearings, if left the bearing can seize and spin in the casing - that not only means a gearbox repair but also a new gearbox casing too! I ran mine for a few weeks after it started and was amazed when I saw how bad things were when they stripped it down.
Gearbox movement when taking drive or starting is likely to be the DMF - again had the exact same symptoms on mine and that ended up being a DMF / clutch / concentric slave change.

All in, it cost me £2100 for a gearbox overhaul, DMF, clutch and concentric slave. It's not a small or cheap job I'm sorry to say.

There are many variants of the PK4 box - I went down that road too, best bite the bullet and get yours repaired.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
239 Posts
Would be surprised if the gearbox bearing is not available from NTN or similar. Unless it is a specific automotive bearing specified by Renault and made by the bearing manufacturer.

Needs to be in your hand for a check. If you get the box out and a bearing, there are gearbox specialists who would put the bearing in if you gave them the box.
I don't imagine that to be many hours work or if you got a guide you could DIY. There are guides here on other Laguna boxes?
I think for £2100 on a repair,I would be buying another cheap car and diy'ing the good one over time. When sorted sell the runabout.

Just to add. There must be a problem with these boxes and DMF'S handling the torque, power and vibration from the higher power diesel engines. Poor show really from Manufacturers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
The bearing and seal kits are freely available, garage I use had no problems sourcing them.

Big expense was in the removal and refitting of the box, circa 10hrs each way if I remember correctly! The actual overhaul of the gearbox was only £500 of my complete bill - The DMF was another £550 and the clutch kit was £220.

I'd certainly get the car repaired - guy at work had a Megane RS DCi with the Cup chassis, was a great car especially once remapped to 204bhp at the wheels!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the thoughs :) I'll be doing the work myself, so no labour charges. I'll have a look at the bearings before getting used gearbox. If anyone knows of a specific place selling a bearing kit for a PK4-013 please do let me know, otherwise I'll get in touch with NTN once I see what the inside of the gearbox looks like. Do the bearings tend to have a part number on them, or would NTN be able to look up based on gearbox codes?

I have been looking into DMF and clutch kits. Looks like it will be best part of £1k for the parts :( Still better than Stu22's bill :eek:

Still I do like the Megane, and would struggle to think what ecomical runabout I'd get for the wife. I have a rx8 and vw camper, so need something which is a bit frugal and practical. But at least I have spare cars so can afford to have the car off the road for a week or two - at least I will be able one once I've moved house in a few weeks. hopefully it will last that long...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
239 Posts
The bearing number and seal number on the items are your absolute guide.They will be there.

It could be NTN , FAG or other. The bearings are not usually linked to a gearbox, engine or other by the bearing manufacturer. They can have so many uses or applications, unless a one off specific (rare).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Right, after a bit of reading the workshop manual it says Step 1: Remove engine!!!, Step 2: Unplug a couple of wires and then unbolt gearbox. Simples!

For all the other engines, including the 225 petrol and the 1.9DCi, it suggests removing the subframe and associated bits, but leaving the engine in place. It seems I'm the lucky one who gets to take the engine out. Given that all the other ones except this one leaves the engine in, I do suspect that removing the engine is the only way.

If anyone has got the gearbox out of a 175DCi RS Megane (M9R engine code, PK4-013 gearbox) I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise I'll be cracking out my engine crane (I do have one, so that is something!). At least it will make lining the gearbox output shaft to the flywheel a bit easier and not so much battling with suspension bits.

It won't be for a few weeks, so I can build myself up for it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
239 Posts
I have no experience of the car. It may be just as easy that way. After all the crane is doing the lifting :d

Just the many disconnections and caveats. Digital cameras are brill for all the stages
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
My digital camera bit the dust when I was changing my RX8 engine - it fell in a bowl of used engine oil and has never been the same since :mad:

But yes, it should be easier lifting, and certainly less scrambling around on the floor. But at least the ac is empty already and been meaning to get round to changing the coolant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hi guys,
I have the Megane GT 150 Dci :d I have a suspicion that I've got the same thing on mine suddenly. there's a faint whine at 70 mph + that won't go away and only in 5th and 6th. I'm more wondering what peoples thoughts are on this and how they noticed the symptoms or whether it is just the whine and definitely the gearbox?:(
Really rather worried about the extortionate costs incurred on this and would rather not have the engine out!? :eek::eek::eek::crazy::crazy::crazy::confused::confused::confused:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
Hi guys,
I have the Megane GT 150 Dci :d I have a suspicion that I've got the same thing on mine suddenly. there's a faint whine at 70 mph + that won't go away and only in 5th and 6th. I'm more wondering what peoples thoughts are on this and how they noticed the symptoms or whether it is just the whine and definitely the gearbox?:(
Really rather worried about the extortionate costs incurred on this and would rather not have the engine out!? :eek::eek::eek::crazy::crazy::crazy::confused::confused::confused:
Exact symptoms I had, I'm sorry to say. Strongly suspect your gearbox bearings also.

If you can do away with the need for a DMF and clutch kits you can knock a fair chunk off the bill but still going to stand you £1000+ at garage....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I think it would be difficult to leave the engine in - and not many more bits to undo to take engine out. I've done it twice now. I made 'mistake' of checking clutch and in putting back failed with the self adjusting clutch (I hope!). Not sure if it worked second time yet with new clutch and pressure plate. On my brief test drive the refurbed gearbox didn't whine in 5th and 6th - but since the clutch was slipping it wasn't easy to tell.

Out of interest can you hear the whine in 1st or 2nd? Gears 1,2,5,6 are all on one shaft and 3,4 on the other. One of my bearings had a tiny amount of play. In hindsight wish I'd have just left it - until summer at least!

I started another thread about me actually changing the gearbox which is inthe engine section (don't ask me why :)).

EDIT: fixed: 1,2,5,6, NOT 1,2,3,4 on same shaft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Not what I wanted to hear but thanks all the same. I have a warranty on the car so hopefully that'll make things a bit cheaper? There's no whine in 1,2,3 or 4 that I've noticed, it's only at speeds of 70+ in 5th and 6th which I shall try to prove later when in 4th at 70.
Fingers crossed then. I'm hoping its not but it seems I'm about to be defeated. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hi all. There is a whine at 70 in fourth also but no where near as noticeable as 5th and 6th, and dipping the clutch will stop the whining immediately. So it's definitely the gearbox then?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Mine was quiet in 4th. And only made the noise when on the gas in 5th or 6th, not when coasting in gear and not if I'd dipped the clutch. And this fitted with how the gears are set up in the gearbox.

I don't know how loud it has to get before it dies, but I did read about gearboxes grenading themselves if left too long. There wasn't much visible wear on the bearing to my untrained eye, but there was some.

There was a used gearbox for your car on eBay in Doncaster or Sheffield for £150 which is quite a good option. I paid £320+VAT to get mine refurbished after I got frightened of how it fitted together and not owning any gear pullers.

I hope the warranty works out for you. Is it with a garage or with something like Quentin Wilson tries to sell. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hi, thanks for coming back to me!
Ok, so mine is only in 4th, 5th or 6th, however I'm starting to think that this may be more speed related, it's very difficult to tell. You know the whine you get when slowing down as you pull up to a junction or lights in 2nd gear (for example). It sounds exactly like that only it gets louder with speed but will settle down when a speed in maintained (For example, the whine starts at around 70 will get louder on the way up to 90 but ease back down even though the speed is being maintained). Mine will make the noise if i'm not on the accelerator but not if I dip the clutch down, however the clutch does now feel different to normal (It's driving me mad and i'm now noticing things elsewhere as much as I can - daily drive so PANIC!!!)
I'm not keen on the idea of it turning into a weapon of mass destruction, so I've not driven her today and left her at home. I have a guy coming to have a look on Friday and I think the best way for him to hear and see what i'm on about would be if he took her for a blast on the dual carriageway.
As for getting the box refurbished, where did you have this done and how quickly can they turn it around?
I apologies for all the questions but i'm trying to be clear, what would be the signs that the DMF is worn? As this is also affecting 4th and could be speed related, could this potentially be a clutch bearing or is it definitely the box?
Thanks for your help on this - much appreciated.

Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Further to the above, any ideas on a rebuild kit or the parts required? Can find loads of rebuild kits for the PK5 & 6 but not the PK4.

:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:

Links to Copyright documents are forbidden in this forum - please read the forum rules
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I asked one of the ebay sellers of the PK5/6 kits if they could do one for the PK4 and they said they could. But I wasn't sure if I could get it back together once I'd had it apart and got a gearbox place in bradford refurbed it for me (£320+VAT).

I did find a pdf manual for the pk4 gearbox - I'll dig out the link when I get home. EDIT- forbidden from adding links to such resouces.

Let us know what your guy thinks the noise might be. I know the difficulty in trying to get to the bottom of a noise. Mine was quite clearly noisey in 5th, but not in 4th. This made me sure it wasn't anything else drivetrain related. Last thing you want to do is fix something which isn't broken.

Tricky to diagnose noises over the internets.

Good luck with it, and let us know how it goes on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hello mate, thanks for coming back to me. I have checked a few times now and have taken her for a proper test run without the need for going anywhere else.
I've found the noise does exist in 3rd also as well as 4th which is starting to lead me astray from the potential requirement for a new box. If I do need a kit then I will probably ask the eBay guys like you suggested.

:mechanic: Had the guy look at it on Friday, he took it for a test drive and said it's definitely something along the lines of the gearbox. Since then I took it on the run. I got up to just over 70 and put the clutch down, still a noise there but much quieter than when in gear, took it out of gear and coasted, still the faint noise existed so it seems now that when in gear it just amplifies the sound. Got home from the drive after convincing myself that it was a wheel bearing and jacked the car up to test, I checked the 12 and six o clock positions, no movement, still very tight, tried the 9 and 3 o clock positions and the same again so not a wheel bearing on the drivers side at least.
With the car in neutral I then turned the wheel slightly and found that it knocked from side to side, which was the same when in gear however with the car in gear there was a resistance once it had knocked whereas when in neutral there wasn't there resistance of the gear, just the knock.
It is very difficult to diagnose via the internet so I appreciate your help! :jawdropping:
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top