Independent Renault Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Been quite a while since I was last on the forum, and not entirely sure this question is in the right place.

Clio - Mk2 (2003) 1.2 16v (D4F 712) has developed a very slight misfire, usually on idle, and a couple of flat spots now and again on acceleration.

Code reader gives Fuel Trim Bank One (P0170), which I am informed points towards the front Lambda sensor - the live feed does show the voltage jumping all over the place.
Got a new sensor and fitted this - which wasnt easy and the 4 pin plug was very fiddly and didnt seem to want to push in. Initially seemed to have solved the issue, but problem has returned.

The old removed sensor has the code 7700274189, however when searching for this, it appears this is for a Mk3 Clio?? - A couple of auto factors have also said this is not the correct part for my car? I only searched again as I wasnt entirely confident I had been given the correct sensor due to the fitting issues.

Car is running ok(ish), but obviously not as it should and dont want to run the risk of serious damage!

Can I get advice on if the above number is the correct part, or if there could be another issue causing the problem.

Many thanks for your help.
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
Been quite a while since I was last on the forum, and not entirely sure this question is in the right place.

Clio - Mk2 (2003) 1.2 16v (D4F 712) has developed a very slight misfire, usually on idle, and a couple of flat spots now and again on acceleration.

Code reader gives Fuel Trim Bank One (P0170), which I am informed points towards the front Lambda sensor - the live feed does show the voltage jumping all over the place.
Got a new sensor and fitted this - which wasnt easy and the 4 pin plug was very fiddly and didnt seem to want to push in. Initially seemed to have solved the issue, but problem has returned.

The old removed sensor has the code 7700274189, however when searching for this, it appears this is for a Mk3 Clio?? - A couple of auto factors have also said this is not the correct part for my car? I only searched again as I wasnt entirely confident I had been given the correct sensor due to the fitting issues.

Car is running ok(ish), but obviously not as it should and dont want to run the risk of serious damage!

Can I get advice on if the above number is the correct part, or if there could be another issue causing the problem.

Many thanks for your help.



the live feed does show the voltage jumping all over the place.
I'd personally be more concerned if it wasn't jumping all over the place................ IMO O2 is not the root cause - see above 2 links for faultfinding P0170 .............. post a graph of the O2 live voltage for a period of 3 minutes at idle beginning BEFORE the engine is started already

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Another post from me regarding this! - Sorry!

Still having the running / idle / misfire issue. Still the same code as well, Fuel Trim Bank One.

Had RAC out about a week ago - pay for it so why not - who suggested the replaced lambda sensor was faulty and get another. This was replaced again, and though a better fit, didnt resolve the issue.

As well as the Lambda sensor, its also had MAP sensor, Temp sensor replaced which again didnt resolve the issue - MAP sensor was damaged anyway. I have also replaced the coil pack this week, and plugs are only about 12 months old.

One thing I noticed when replacing the coil was that the little lead from the that bolts to the rear of the block - the connector block appears to be quite damaged - however it doesnt look like its possible to change that without replacing the entire wiring loom?

I did look last time regards the graph as mentioned above, but my little machine doesnt appear to support this, and cant see how it would connect to PC.

Output for Lambda 2 is steady at 0.035V - But 1 bounces round between 0.05V and 0.950V

Also, and as expected the oil stinks, but little point in changing that until the misfire is sorted.

Starting to be a needle in a haystack, but more mechanically minded friends have mentioned injectors, crank sensor, worn piston seals/rings even a cracked air pipe - but feel I would just be chasing and dont want to be throwing money at a car that could be dead.

Anyone got an idea before it gets set on fire?
 

·
Premium Member
Grand Scenic 1.6 2007
Joined
·
5,181 Posts
This any help?
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
So - what is the current O2 sensor part number then - 8200632270 as specified?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
This any help?
No loss in power with mine as such, just a rough idle and over fuelling - emissions are very high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Update to my posts a month ago.

Last couple of weeks I have been trying my best to chase down this fault. Since last time, as well as the replacement lambda / MAP / Temp sensors. Its also had a set of plugs, and a coil pack. I thought I had it cracked. There was an issue with one plug (cylinder 1) where the electrode was bent. There was also an issue with the plug in cylinder 3. When the last coil pack was removed the rubber insulating bung had stuck to the plug and wasn't noticed so the replacement coil pack obviously wasn't making a full connection. I managed to get the rubber off, and the plug out - I hoovered the plug recess to remove any small bits.

Cleaned the plugs, put them back in, cleared codes, and car was running without the P0170 Fuel Trim, but gained P0300 Random Multiple Misfire. Checked all connections, and came with P0314.

At this point, I hadn't changed the coil or plugs mentioned above - and obviously was aware one plug was damaged. I switched all plugs around to test if it was lead or plug - and came back with the same error - P0314. So then changed all the plugs for brand new ones, and brand new coil pack (third one) Misfire had disappeared, but was running slightly rough - but given the issues I expected it until the ECU got used to all the new / changed parts.

All was going well last couple of days - running better than it has for months - until this morning, when the Fuel Trim error has returned, along with the expected slight misfire.

Posting a graph of the live feed was mentioned above - I cant directly connect my reader to PC - would a phone video suffice? (if needed)
 

·
Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
Joined
·
37,402 Posts
I will say yes to you
Post away
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
but was running slightly rough - but given the issues I expected it until the ECU got used to all the new / changed parts.
If the engine is "running rough" for anything more than about 30 seconds after some work was completed on the engine (or not) .................especially after more than one cold/hot drive cycle ................. then there is a problem (stating the obvious). Around 30 seconds after start the O2 will start doing its job and any fueling related doubts should be gone since the engine will be running as per the ECU's inbuilt map and ALREADY learned adaptations.

Cannot see sh.t ito details in that graph but it looks to be doing its thing - see my earlier post about a decent log being required.

Me? .............. first port of call is a compression test per cylinder - both wet and dry............. post up the 8 values here let's see. .................. then a fuel rail pressure test log (values for ignition on engine off BEFORE starting on a cold engine, engine idling, engine under load, and most importantly for about 1 minute after ignition switched off)



Also me only - what is needed is a log of all engine parameters for a typical trip (cold to hot engine) with the data beginning already before the engine is started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Update.

Compression test done and all ok. HOWEVER, cylinder 1 had a VERY dirty plug (only done circa 90 miles) and was jet black around the electrode. Others still nice and shiny as expected after only 90 miles. (dont have the numbers unfortunately, but apparently values were normal)

This injector was replaced about 18 months ago - it had somehow snapped?? However I no longer use this garage - reason being they told me they replaced the rocker gasket without needing to removed the inlet manifold (different occasion to save confusion). I only let them do it in the first place as they said it would cost £15 (already had the gasket) as they were doing something else anyway (and they didnt resolve the oil leak obviously). Gasket has now been replaced and leak resolved.

Would it be worthwhile swapping the injectors round to see if the issue 'moves' to another cylinder, or could this open up other issues?

New garage said didnt feel there was a need for fuel pressure test? as car runs well when travelling.

I am not really up for spending much more on the car - it is pretty much on its last legs - its 18 years old - and I know the injectors, even copies are not exactly cheap. Its just a case of keeping the car running for as long as possible (6 months?) while I look for a replacement.
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
Yep -- swap the injectors around (leave the plugs where they are though) - cost you nothing in the end and you will be able to confirm yourself if its the issue.

Mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about if he knew the plug was black now and replaced it 90m ago ............... a fuel rail pressure test would most likely have confirmed a funky injector if he bothered
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yep -- swap the injectors around (leave the plugs where they are though) - cost you nothing in the end and you will be able to confirm yourself if its the issue.

Mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about if he knew the plug was black now and replaced it 90m ago ............... a fuel rail pressure test would most likely have confirmed a funky injector if he bothered
Did seem strange. So if I swap the injectors 1+2 around and the issue moves to the other plug, I can assume that the injector is the issue, and then if not, probably fuel rail / pressure given its the last cylinder in the line?

Is the fuel rail test easy to do or does it require certain equipment (other than a good set of spanners / sockets)
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
Rail is difficult .......... do the injectors first.

If the black plug tip moves then yes you have your answer.

probably fuel rail / pressure given its the last cylinder in the line?
Nope - cannot conclude/say that - same pressure on them all once all the air is purged (iow just about always) ................ more interested in the behaviour of the pressure regulating valve and actual fuel pressure behaviour at start and about 2 minutes after engine switch off
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Rail is difficult .......... do the injectors first.

If the black plug tip moves then yes you have your answer.


Nope - cannot conclude/say that - same pressure on them all once all the air is purged (iow just about always) ................ more interested in the behaviour of the pressure regulating valve and actual fuel pressure behaviour at start and about 2 minutes after engine switch off
We have a winner.

Plug 2 is now Jet Black so can assume the injector is at fault - only swapped those over.

Now just to source an injector - at first glance, they dont appear to be cheap - £106 is the first price!

(anyone happen to know the correct part code - I dont trust using the ones fitted)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
See my post #2 above
Apologies. I've looked at the parts link, and cant identify the injector - can identify most others but always struggle with exploded diagrams.

The one that needs replacing, which ironically is also the one that WAS replaced a while back, is printed IWP042 - cant recall what the other 3 are (ebay tells me IWP099 is correct?), but seem to remember they are different.
 

·
Premium Member
Scenic II, 2004, K4M761, DPO
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
From that site without your specific engine numbers etc etc it looks like original Renault part 8200025248
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
From that site without your specific engine numbers etc etc it looks like original Renault part 8200025248
Nice edit! - was going to post that the original number appeared to be a fuel rail.

Looks like the part I posted is the same, and means the one that was fitted for me - last year / 18 months ago, is incorrect.

Thanks very much for your help LvR - I'll get that part over the weekend and it should finally resolve my issues! You're a credit to the forum.

If you were closer, I'd quite happily buy you a couple of pints!
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top