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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

My 2003 Vauxhall Movano (aka Renault Master) 2.5 Dti, G9UA 720C will not start. It was running absolutely fine until I parked it up to replace the clutch, due to juddering. I also replaced the slave and master cyls. due to pedal going to the floor (still need to get it bled). In order to help with bleeding the clutch, I decided to get it back on it's wheels and start it up, hoping that the vibration would help shift some of the air up the pipe.

But it now won't start! It turns over fine, but after five seconds or so of turning, the red 'engine' shape management warning light comes on. All the usual lights come on and then go off before turning over, inc. immobiliser, only the management light is coming on after turning. If I switch off and back on, the management light is stilll on, but if I leave it a while, it willl switch on and all light are as normal again, with the management light only coming on after turning for five secs. or so again.

I was told by a mechanic that it would be the crank sensor broken, but having bought a new one, it looks identical with no damage and the resistance is the same, so the coil hasn't failed. I've not fitted it (refitted old one and checked wiring), as it was £50 and I want to take it back for a refund!

I've checked and reset the clutch pedal switch and thoroughly cleaned the earth strap on the gearbox, but don't really know what else to check. Willl have a look at the fuel filter, pump etc today.

Either I have disturbed something, or something has failed in the two weeks it's been on axle stands (I can't work on it for long each day and everything has been a pain to get off!). I only bought the van a couple of months ago and I've not had a van for a very long time, but have done a fair bit of car repairs/rebuilds in the past. It started easily every time before fitting the clutch.

Any idea what the engine management light could indicate, or does it indicate just 'any' engine problem?
Any good mobile van mechanics in the Southampton area that could read the fault codes?
Also, any suggestions on a reasonably priced diagnostics tool for this van?

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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can we see if we have this right,,,..
Pulled gearbox off, and changed clutch..
What was holding the engine up, brace over the top.
Or jack under the sump.
If jack, did you have to lower it to pull gearbox off the engine, because of room. If hydraulic jack, did it drop down over the said period
What have you changed, clutch plate, pressure plate, and slave cylinder, anything done to the flywheel?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, that's it. I've been stumped on this for the last couple of days, hence the post, but I have actually got it running today!

I had lowered the engine on two big jacks, one under the sump, one under the gearbox, ready for taking it out. Neither dropped. I used a brace to hold the engine back from going through the radiator etc.! I did take the flywheel out to help with removing/replacing the spigot bearing (was rough - and seriousy stuck!!), but I centre-puched it and the crank to make sure it all went back the same.

Anyway, I removed all of the sensor connectors today, sprayed them with WD40 and refitted them a couple of times to give them a bit of a 'wipe clean'. I also had another go at pushing the crank TDC sensor in, gave it a good wobble and a push (it's only held in by a spring clip!!!). I had already checked this electrically, cleaned and greased it and pushed it in as far as I could, but thought I'd give it another try.

After all of this (and an over night charge to get the battery really fully charged) I cranked it over and it started up! So, to be honest, I can't really tell you what it was. Maybe I didn't have the crank sensor fully in, but I don't think it shifted at all today.

Whatever it was, I got on with bleeding the clutch (bit of a pain, but got there in the end), so will be putting the last few bits on tomorrow and taking it for a test drive. So fingers crossed!

Thanks again for the help.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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So it was spigot bearing giving you clutch problems then.
Was it the wd40, and cardboard to remove the bearing then
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I originally had clutch judder, then the clutch pedal went down to the floor, so I decided it all had to be replaced, clutch and both cylinders. Once I got it apart, my brother had a look and found that the spigot bearing was also rough, so that was possibly the cause of the judder, as the clutch itself looked not too bad. Not quite WD40 and cardboard (don't know that one!) - my brother had a Mercedes inner bearing removal tool, but the shaft on that broke trying to get it out, leaving the body in the bearing! It was only with the aid of a very tough JCB crowbar and jumping on a 6 foot extension that we managed to pop it out! Must have been glued in.

Anyway, road tested it today and the clutch side of things was all good; a bit spongy still to start with, but it self-bled with use and is now absolutely fine.

I still have a problem with it not starting very well though (takes longer to start the longer it's been unused), when I had no problems at all with this BC (before clutch). So I don't think WD'ing the connectors and wiggling the TDC sensor had anything to do with getting it started, probably just charging the battery and getting it turning over quickly. I have ordered an Op-Com diagnostics tool, so will have a go when that arrives and check fuel preesure and for any error codes. I'll post again when I get that info or find anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
After a successful road test yesterday (drove about 20 miles), today it again refuses to start.

It turns over plenty fast enough, but even after several tries, it doesn't even try to start, not a splutter - nothing. This time though, the engine management warning light isn't coming on.

It's starting to look like diesel pump failure to me. Anyone got any other ideas, or things I can check before my Op-Com tester arrives, hopefully in the next couple of days?
 

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Have you tried it with EasyStart? I am a diseasel virgin, but from what I read, it's common for the primer bulb / Diesel filter to leak & suck in air..
If it runs on E/S then it's deffo a fuel problem.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Dont mess with the fuel, at this point, other than!!!!!!
Does it have a hand primer, if yes pump it , if not, can you here the electric pump..
Is it a movano that you are working on.
Just to clarify..
This sound's more of an electrical issue
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
No, it doesn't have a primer bulb, unfortunately. Yes, it's a Movano, 2.5 Dti.

I can hear the electric primer pump, that seems to be working fine and the fuel lines are full with no obvious air in them.
I've not tried easystart, but it runs fine once it does get going, so I don't personally think it's electrical, as it doesn't cut out once it's running. I could be wrong though, obviously.

I know the fuel pump is very high pressure, so I know great care is needed and not to open up the high pressure side.
I did 'crack open' (very slightly loosen) one of the injector feeds the other day before I got it going again and although there was fuel, it didn't seem to have much pressure, but I'm not sure, as my brother was doing the checking (he's had several Ivecos, so has quite a bit of diesel experience) and he said it was low pressure. But then it started (a bit reluctantly) and has run fine every time since, once it gets going - it just doesn't like starting!
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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No, what I mean is, the fuel side was ok before the clutch issue, so dont go there.
You will give yourself another problem.
Go to your fuse box under the bonnet, line of relays ,, dont know if they are all fitted, but it is the second relay up.
Take this out, ( With Ignition On), put it back in, see if you can feel it click
Third one down is the fuel pump, pull this out and push it back in, again It should click, or the fuel pump will run.
If those are ok, check your cranksensor, is clean
P.s the way I remove the spigot bearing, soak cardboard in wd40, force the cardboard in, a dowel that just goes in the bearing, then hit the dowel, keep forcing cardboard soaked in wd40, and it pushes the bearing out ( mashed cardboard goes behind the bearing)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK, thanks for that. I'll check them like that, but I did remove/refit the relays and fuses to clean the connections. What does the first one you mention do (second one up)?

The primer fuel pump is working fine. I have just replaced and bled the fuel filter and checked it down to the HP pump and all is well up to that point.

I have already checked the crank sensor, it's not broken, the resistance is good and it is clean and fully fitted in.

The thing is, everything was working fine before replacing the clutch, so I can't assume anything is OK now, though obviously the electrics have been disturbed more than the fuel system.

When it does start, it runs absolutely fine and doesn't misfire or cut out, so I'm not convinced it's electrics.

Probably have to wait until my diagnostics tester arrives before I can tell really.

Good tip on the spigot bearing. I was told by someone else to do this using grease, which I tried and it didn't work - very messy and difficult to get in without a grease gun. I'm sure the paper/WD thing would work much better and is much less likely to leak back. I don't think it would have worked on mine though, given that a Merc puller broke trying to get it out! IF I ever do another one (VERY much doubt it!), I'l give it a try!

Thanks again, I'll update as and when I find anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
OK, I have now got this sorted. The Op-Com arrived yesterday and immediately it confirmed that there was a problem with the crank sensor signal. The one on my van does not bolt on, instead it has a weird spring fitting that wraps around the end of the crank casing and the sensor goes through it (see photo).

I had already removed, thoroughly cleaned and checked the sensor itself and was certain it wasn't faulty (the resistance was fine) or damaged, so had thought that maybe the wiring had got damaged during the clutch relacement work and I was about to pull it out of the loom to check, when I remembered the smalll inspection panel at the bottom of the flywheel.

I took the inspection cover off and, with a small torch, tried to see the crank sensor poking through the casing, but I couldn't see it. It turns out that it was going through the spring and casing, but catching on the back edge of the spring on the other side of the casing and as I pushed it in, the spring was pushing it back. When pushed it in as far as I could, it would sometimes just get a signal and would start. but would then get pushed back further by the spring and fail to start after running for a while!

With a bit of a struggle (it's very tight under there and not possible to see the other side of the spring), I managed to get the sensor through the hole in the spring on the other side of the casing and when I did, it actually clicked into place. I knew then that it was fixed. The van started without any problem, it drives fine and starts again every time!

A little tip for anyone with one of these with a spring fitting; a 13mm socket jammed between the intermediate drive shaft and the spring will let you line the spring holes up with the crank housing and get the sensor fitted in. Make sure it goes right through and clicks into place and don't forget to take the socket out when you've finished!

The only thing I don't understand (other than the stupid spring fitting design!), is why the van failed to start straight after the cluch relacement, as I had not touched the crank sensor at that point - I only removed and checked it when someone said it was most likely broken by the refitting of the gearbox/bell housing (not possible on these, as it's actually behind the flywheel). I can only think that it must have got dirty, or picked up some metal swarf, but it didn't look that dirty when I took it out. I don't think it can have moved, as the spring does hold it firm and it was initially very difficult to get out - and it was working sometimes even when it was quite a long way off from being fully fitted!

Anyway, all sorted now, with no (more) expensive bits needed!

Thanks again to everyone for their advice, hopefully thread this can be of help to someone else.
 

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