[madnoel10]

My neighbour has just had four new replacement injectors fitted at an independent garage. Apparently the injectors were just changed over and the engine ran OK but the garage stated they don't need programmed.
During similar work in the past I have always had similar injectors programmed in to the ECU. His car has been running for two days now only covering about 10 miles and he is now getting an intermittent fuel injection warning light.
What I need to know is will the ECU throw a fault if the injectors aren't programmed. Otherwise the engine is running perfectly although it hasn't had a long run as yet.
Personally I suspect a dirty EGR valve as the engine was emitting black smoke before the injectors were changed.

Any useful comments would be appreciated.

 

[Prestige_Decodes]

If it is a delphi system they will need coded
the car may run without it but it will cause problems as the coding is what lets the ecu know how much fuel to put though each injector without coding the car can over fuel

 

[Recycled Scenic]

A friend of mine has a diesel Laguna and he recently had a conversation with a mate of his who runs a small garage about changing injectors. He was told you can change the injectors without programming them to the ECU and the engine will start and run however if they aren’t eventually programmed to the ECU you will start to have problems.

 

[madnoel10]

If it is a delphi system they will need coded
the car may run without it but it will cause problems as the coding is what lets the ecu know how much fuel to put though each injector without coding the car can over fuel

That was my thinking but I'll need to check if its the Delphi or Bosch system.

If it's the Bosch system do the injectors not need programmed?

 

[madnoel10]

Just to update this thread.

My neighbour went back to the garage who carried out the work and at my suggestion they have discovered metal filings in the fuel filter. The repairs will entail a full flush of the fuel system, a new fuel pump, etc, etc, Probably costing at least another £500 plus.

Initially the engine problems began 3 months ago with a sevre diesel knock and after a run-around of numerous gages including Renault dealers he had a recon engine, new fuel rail, prssire sensors, all at a cost of around £2500.
The engine had a severe knock at idle and my initial diagnosis was that at least one injector had failed open and I advised the fuel filter was checked for metal filings using the magnet test. Whilst there was no guaratee my initial guess was correct such a simple test would have been cheap and not even required a diagnostic kit. Again this expensive blunder appears to be down to over reliance of code readers than than the Mark I eyeball.
Unfortunately I have not been able to give my neighbour any direct assistance recently due to a serious illness in my family. What started out as a possible £900 job will end up costing around £3500.

 

[Tolak]

If it is a delphi system they will need coded
the car may run without it but it will cause problems as the coding is what lets the ecu know how much fuel to put though each injector without coding the car can over fuel

The discussion has covered the reality of the situation for this car. (Scary problem; worth watching out for)
But I have a question; does the "programming" of the sensors into the ECU actually provide the calibrated reading for that injector? And hence when the ECU requires an amount of fuel, it knows from the calibration how long the injector should be driven open?
Hence an unprogrammed (uncalibrated) injector may inject too much or too little fuel, and hence detrimentally affect economy, smoothness and peformance.
So is it worth having the injectors cleaned and calibrated, and the current readings programmed into the ECU, to blue-print the fuel delivery system, or are the errors much less than the tolerances on the sensors, etc used to calculate the required fuel amount?

(I suppose I am extrapolating from the idea of large production variations (requiring calibration info on installation) and relating that to a potential variation in the injector operation over its working life, and I have no experience in this field. I also don't have confidence that my car was well maintained before I got it, so the possibility of the injectors being swapped around is also relevant.)

 

[madnoel10]

The engine will run without having the injectors programed into the ECU.
As each injector is individually controlled the ECU needs to know its position and calibration.
This is done by programming each injectors code number into the fuel control system.

 

[Lagdti]

The only engines I've come across that are sensitive to having the injectors changed are Ford TDCi's,they will run really rough if you don't programme the numbers from them into the ECU.

I've changed injectors on many other makes and models without any problems at all.

 

[Tolak]

What is the range of calibration settings for an injector? Do the values programmed show a direct relationship to the characteristics, or is there an encryption or combiination?

And what are the key characteristics for an injector? Response time, flow per mA, others? I can appreciate that micro-steps would be thoroughly compromised by poor latency or bad rate response. (I would expect latency would be the key thing for micro-steps, and rate is key for a less sophisticated single-pulse systems)

And what level of sophistication is the Laguna dCi system?

Sorry to ask so many questions (some of which are pretty basic, and some misconceptions) but I'm intrigued by the amount that we could benefit from calibration. And the amount we would suffer if miscalibrated.

 

[coup]

Check sections 13 or 13.9-13.12 in this.
*** Sorry no copywrite material permitted *** It seems to be to do with flow rate:

Thats not to say each injector has to be ordered individually Im sure,just a specific part number and u could get 100 of them.
Its just each one seems to have an individual 16 character code stamped on it.

I dont know if this varies across different engines/injection systems or not.
Even opening the injection system, there seem to be all sorts of rules.. lint free cloths, ,no dust ingress ,new parts in hermetically sealed bags ,until just prior to fitting. All sorts of sheet.

I just cant see your local mechanic / renault main dealer workshop guys working in a "hospital operating room environment"
"Nurse wipe my brow,I cant afford to have a sweat droplet gaining ingress to the diesel injection system"

 

[coup]

oops seems it was copyrighted , ill have to watch the links in future :loser:

The "thing " was official stuff from a land far far away where onion jonnies ply their trade on bicycles.
Gerard Depardieu has been seen there as Obelix , a character who carries a "magic formula" liquid around in a barrel.
Recent headlines indicate that this "magic formula" liquid may not be as magical as once thought."oui, oui".

Heh anyway: the "thing" said something like.

Every time u change an injector/injectors the 16 character code stamped on it/them is supposed to be entered into the ecu.
The primary reason seems to be for minute flow rate differences, I gather.
Same thing if you have to put in a new ecu "unit" it has to be told the code of each injector on the engine.

official renaults service dudes are supposed to adhere to a very strict cleanliness routine when ever the injection system is opened as contamination larger than a couple of microns can cause blockages.

dust, skin particles, hairs ..u name it.

It seems like work on a diesel injection system is supposed to be like a hospital operating room.
Whether renault service dudes really adhere to all the precautions in "the thing" I dont know, but I would have less confidence that an independent dude would.
Other info included was on the adjustments that could be "programmed" if u had access to the correct equipment/database.

 

[Tolak]

Thanks for the info.
It seems like the 16-digit code carries all the characteristics for the injector, so the differences are not obvious (even if we could do anything about them).
So if we have the nozzles cleaned/checked, the "new calibration" characteristics may not be possible to put into the ECU? Unless the encoding for the 16 digits is a common algorithm.

Recognising the cleanliness issue is a timely reminder; the size/accuracy of the nozzles is paramount for the flow characteristics.

And, given that my car was unloved before I got it (it had jelly in the fuel filter) I wonder how clean the system is. I shall put another batch of nozzle cleaner through the tank, to see about getting everything purged.

I still have no feel for the range of variation between the nozzles; 10% or 100%? And does ageing matter?
Anon

 

[Tolak]

I still have no feel for the range of variation between the nozzles; 10% or 100%? And does ageing matter?
Anon

Continuing this thread; it may be old knowledge to those who do know, but I'm enjoying digging.
There's a link about the effects of dynamic response, and how a nozzle that matches at steady state may have significantly different dynamic responses (13%) here and so I plan to try to simply model the differences this would introduce.
Anyone already cognisant of the effects, and can demonstrate it?

 

[merlecollins]

Hi all,

just had a quick read through of this thread as I am also having to replace all injectors and fuel pump in my Trafic 2.0 due to a fuel pump failure...

Anyway my local garage that are fitting everything are not a Renault main dealer, but there is a Renault main dealer about 16miles away.

Will it be OK once everything is fitted, to drive the van to the Main Dealer to have the injectors coded? Also does the new pump need to be coded?

Thanks,

MC

 

[Anthony90]

Do you have to get the fuel injectors coded at a renault garage. How much would they be for a set.

 

[helhaj]

Renault garage quote me 1200 pounds for set of three injectors

 

[toddy2013]

just bought a 1.5 dci scenic which needs new injectors and then to have them coded to the ecu.
can someone tell me which software can do this.
ddt2000, can clip or is there a cheaper option, I want to buy the program and do the work myself as I like messing with Renaults and im sure it will pay for its self after a few uses. most probably on this car alone as its riddled with electrics that don't work properly, well it is a Renault
cheers
col

 

[bugsb]

your best bet is the can clip from china i used aliexspress find one with free dhl shipping and you will have it with in 5 days
the way it works they hold the money the seller sends the item when you get it if all is well then they pay the seller you can pick them up from around £80 due to a good pound to dollar
on top of this you can play with renaults to your hearts content :d
Ron

added
if you use a can clip for the injectors dont do as i did have caps lock on or it will not work it took me ages to work that out and with a bit of help from a forum member

 

[toddy2013]

sorry ron
I sent you a message after reading another thread and hadn't seen your reply, so it will defo let me code the injectors, I only ask as some people say you need a dongle to create codes

 

[bugsb]

sorry ron
I sent you a message after reading another thread and hadn't seen your reply, so it will defo let me code the injectors, I only ask as some people say you need a dongle to create codes

each injector has its own serial number you enter that with the can clip to the correct cylinder job done
Ron