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Super Moderator Technical Supremo Platinum Member
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That rotation speed looks fine by me...remember it is not about speed to create the pressure, it is the force applied to the pistons in the HP pump and their size, volume is not overly important, each squirt of an injector is a gnat's pee.

Now, what about the gears?
 

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Discussion Starter #182
That rotation speed looks fine by me...remember it is not about speed to create the pressure, it is the force applied to the pistons in the HP pump and their size, volume is not overly important, each squirt of an injector is a gnat's pee.

Now, what about the gears?
can turn them easy all looks good inside.
 

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Discussion Starter #183
That rotation speed looks fine by me...remember it is not about speed to create the pressure, it is the force applied to the pistons in the HP pump and their size, volume is not overly important, each squirt of an injector is a gnat's pee.

Now, what about the gears?
is there anyway to remove the high-pressure pump without removing the timing belt?...(pretty sure its a no)
 

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is there anyway to remove the high-pressure pump without removing the timing belt?...(pretty sure its a no)
No..... if that pump comes off or has to be replaced it is a new belt and timing.

can turn them easy all looks good inside.
Okay....as with any problem, start with a theory, test it, discard and move on if it is shown false.
Sorry, another dead end.
 

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Discussion Starter #185
What is the consensus?
1 We have fuel going to the pump,
2 the primer is feeding fuel to the transfer pump
3 The transfer pump gears appear to be working, rotating and undamaged
4 The spindle that turns the transfer pump gears appears to be rotating correctly to turn the gears
-----
5----
6----
------
conclusion so are we are looking for something happening from that point (transfer pump to fuel rail)
as there is no high pressure fuel getting to rail-injector pipes or injectors.....as was shown when I cracked the fuel rail injector feeds(not stating it as fact but asking the question)

What if I Refit the transfer pump crack open the high pressure line from the pump (stand well back) and crank it.
If its got pressure ---(no idea)
If it has not got presure- then its the pump(?)
 

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Possibly and and possibly not.....that is what we are trying to work out...... thinking cap back on, don't go back to spaghetti or changing things willy nilly.
Please.

When it is time to indulge in a gallon of petrol and a match we will tell you...nowhere near there yet.
 

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GOING to ask again
When the fault occurred, did it DIE as you were driving
Or did it refuse to start, after the engine ran away with you doing nothing to the pedal
Something not adding up here
 

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Discussion Starter #189
GOING to ask again
When the fault occurred, did it DIE as you were driving
Or did it refuse to start, after the engine ran away with you doing nothing to the pedal
Something not adding up here
When the fault occurred, did it DIE as you were driving.... Yes but managed to get her going to get home,

Was driving, van starter running rough,, coughing and spluttering, then stalled.
Pulled over and was just turning over, left it 5 minutes and it fired up, all sempt well.
10 minutes later same think, coughing and spluttering and van cutout, managed to bump her before see stopped.
At this point I set off back home, coughing and spluttering, and the accelerator peddle became unresponsive, then all was well again for about 2-3 minutes
then the coughing and spluttering started again, the accelerator started revving on its own, then cut out again.
I free wheeled to a safe spot, opened the bonnet, (engine is off at this time) could not see anything strange,
tried to start-----and just turning over--- I am about 5 minutes from home--
waited a few minutes, managed to get her going, but she was rought and would not tick over, so stuck on the hazards kept reving her to stop her cutting out
and stopped for nothing, got her on the drive soon as i took foot off accelerator she died....

Once on drive, i did have her going ...but very very rough running and cut out seen as no accelerator pedel.
She was like that for a day..then went to no start at all
Only other thing of note is the last week or so, she had become harder to start than normal, used to fire up first turn of the key, but I was aware the battery had seen better days so thought that was the issue, (turns out the battery was/is fuked and have bought a new one)
 

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Sorry - been fixing donated electric cars for kids in a home

So - given what you have gone through now (I usually wouldn't strip a hp pump that is suspect - send it off to get fixed and calibrated if all priming and timing tests are confirmed).......................

I am still saying it a rail pressure issue :eek: :sick:

New experiment dreamed up:

If you don't have an electric lift pump in the tank - get yourself a cheap electric fuel pump used for fuel injected engines (one with a long thin body and rotating armature - not a diaphragm type) and plumb it into the line coming from the tank going to the filter - these things can push a good 4Bar plus.

Ignition on, scanner on live data looking at rail pressure or fuel pressure, with the electric pump not getting any power you should see 0 fuel pressure - now put direct from battery 12V on the electric pump - with luck you will see and hear diesel getting pushed around in the direction of the hp pump..................... what sort of rail/fuel pressure are you seeing under live data on the scanner (call it value #1)?

Now spin the starter both with and without the rail pressure sensor connected - any difference from #1 seen in rail/fuel pressure?
 

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Discussion Starter #191
Sorry - been fixing donated electric cars for kids in a home

So - given what you have gone through now (I usually wouldn't strip a hp pump that is suspect - send it off to get fixed and calibrated if all priming and timing tests are confirmed).......................

I am still saying it a rail pressure issue :eek: :sick:

New experiment dreamed up:

If you don't have an electric lift pump in the tank - get yourself a cheap electric fuel pump used for fuel injected engines (one with a long thin body and rotating armature - not a diaphragm type) and plumb it into the line coming from the tank going to the filter - these things can push a good 4Bar plus.

Ignition on, scanner on live data looking at rail pressure or fuel pressure, with the electric pump not getting any power you should see 0 fuel pressure - now put direct from battery 12V on the electric pump - with luck you will see and hear diesel getting pushed around in the direction of the hp pump..................... what sort of rail/fuel pressure are you seeing under live data on the scanner (call it value #1)?

Now spin the starter both with and without the rail pressure sensor connected - any difference from #1 seen in rail/fuel pressure?
I was under the impression if it had a primer bulb it did not have a tank pump, but I have been wondering if that is true or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #193 (Edited)
Sorry - been fixing donated electric cars for kids in a home

So - given what you have gone through now (I usually wouldn't strip a hp pump that is suspect - send it off to get fixed and calibrated if all priming and timing tests are confirmed).......................

I am still saying it a rail pressure issue :eek: :sick:

New experiment dreamed up:

If you don't have an electric lift pump in the tank - get yourself a cheap electric fuel pump used for fuel injected engines (one with a long thin body and rotating armature - not a diaphragm type) and plumb it into the line coming from the tank going to the filter - these things can push a good 4Bar plus.

Ignition on, scanner on live data looking at rail pressure or fuel pressure, with the electric pump not getting any power you should see 0 fuel pressure - now put direct from battery 12V on the electric pump - with luck you will see and hear diesel getting pushed around in the direction of the hp pump..................... what sort of rail/fuel pressure are you seeing under live data on the scanner (call it value #1)?

Now spin the starter both with and without the rail pressure sensor connected - any difference from #1 seen in rail/fuel pressure?
ok, seen one on Amazon
12mm inlet diameter

8mm outlet diameter

Voltage: 12V

Fast High Pressure Flow
Normal Run Pressure: 3 Bar

Max Pressure: 8.5 Bar



Will be here tomorrow,
 

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Discussion Starter #194 (Edited)
REFITTED THE Transfer PUMP TO THE hp pump (NO LEAKS)
TOOK OFF THE HIGH PRESSURE LINE FROM PUMP TO FUEL RAIL......(DONT TRY THIS AT HOME! I AM A Professional IDIOT)
Primed the pump .......
Turned her over and nothing but a drip coming out whilst turning her over..
Re primed pump each time (the pump was loosing almost no pressure, 1/4 of a pump at the most with 5 seconds of turning her over)
Tried it many times... same
nothing but a drip coming from the high pressure pipe from the pump, with or without regulator connected in or out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE TO THIS
I put the fuel line that goes from the top of the injectors back to pump back on, left off the line that goes to the fuel rail and its spitting out some derv from pump , will post vid, (no sound dropped phone and looks like broke the mic :mad:)
 

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If you stick your finger on that outlet doing the dribbling ..................... can you feel pressure building and fuel eventually getting forced past your finger?

I have no idea about the exact internal construction of the pump but would think its some kind of positive displacement job ........................ given the volume "seen" produced at crank speed, why is it I have a feeling the pump actually wants to do its thing now and that if the rail is properly bled and with no leaky injectors, you should have adequate pressure in the rail? :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter #197
If you stick your finger on that outlet doing the dribbling ..................... can you feel pressure building and fuel eventually getting forced past your finger?

I have no idea about the exact internal construction of the pump but would think its some kind of positive displacement job ........................ given the volume "seen" produced at crank speed, why is it I have a feeling the pump actually wants to do its thing now and that if the rail is properly bled and with no leaky injectors, you should have adequate pressure in the rail? :unsure:
Sorry but sticking my finger over something that has the potential to rip it off is not what i call a fun filled Sunday morning




187756


Plus dont want to wait a week for them to grow back
187757

😊
 

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Sorry but sticking my finger over something that has the potential to rip it off is not what i call a fun filled Sunday morning
IMO that is not going to happen because there simply is not enough displacement but ok I understand. Use a thick piece of rubber with a wooden plank backing and try that
 

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I'm simply in two minds at the moment......
Given the breakdown, I have to assume summat failed.

The pump is actually simple inside but has got potential for hiccups.
The gear pump to feed fuel in, that seems to work.
Three high pressure pistons with appropriate check valves to direct the fuel....given the size of shaft and bearings, if the shaft is turning, those pistons are moving.
And the fuel pressure regulator. Which is the favourite issue but I think you said you'd tried another.

Then there is the ECU.
I'm not overly bothered about the 3v.... it is an electronically switched earth and leakage can happen with no detriment.
And am never convinced that an ECU has failed unless there is compelling evidence.
But cannot rule it out given where we are.

Then we have loads of tales on how hard it can be to start a diseasal once the system has been opened.
And that may be where we are considering that common items like a poor connection have all been disturbed so cleaning would have taken place.

At the mo, I am between pull the pump out and get it tested or the ECU
Not fit the 45 quid ECU, test the one that we know worked on the vehicle.
If it were me I would send the ECU away first, simply as that is the easiest to remove and refit.

And cannot rule out try again with a decent battery, easy start and perseverance.
 

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Ditto Dancingdad ........................

As you say the hp pump is in fact producing fuel by virtue of that last video ................. now the question is, is it enough to fill/pressurize the rail (and again I have to say IF THE INJECTORS ARE NOT LEAKING) ......................... I basically get stuck here - if there is flow out of the hp pump (even a small bit like at the time of cranking in that video) then surely the rail MUST eventually get filled................. as long as fuel is being produced by the hp pump when cranking, then the ECU's presence is effectively irrelevant

Now I am not there to experience the difference myself but would be checking on the perceived volume in that video and the perceived volume from the inlet of one of the injectors from the rail if it's connected back up and primed - this is the reason why I suggested the electric fuel pump. If the hp pump internals are as per your description, I would think that the electric pump's pressure MUST reflect on the rail pressure sensor soon as all the air is bled out of the rail
 
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