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Discussion Starter #141
Yeah it is not an enviable position to be in but what I said is my approach.

I dont know if any of the other guys perhaps can suggest an easier way to get pressure to the rail

Normally one can also pull the plug on the pressure regulator valve (iow the regulator then becomes inoperative and you SHOULD get max mechanical pump pressure measured on the rail if the pump is ok) - perhaps you can try that experiment too?
That soulds like a good idea, will try that tomorrow before the fuses..............thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #142
If I get no joy finding the solution, Anybody recommend a decent mobile diagnostics guy in South Yorkshire
 

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Super Moderator Technical Supremo Platinum Member
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What fuel pump is it Steve?
Please don't say Bosch...unless it is...but I am hoping its not.
 

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Think it is, will check in morning, too dark to see now.
Hmmmm
Most seem to be Delphi or Siemens these days so we don't see this too often.
Some Bosch HP pumps have a low pressure lift pump system as a bolt on at the back of the pump...4 bolts to remove the cover if memory serves.
This pump is driven by a skinny shaft from the main part of the pump...the HP side.
And the pump breaks up.... leaving no low pressure feed so nothing for the HP side to grab and no fuel pressure.
Often this is shown by the beasty running as long as the primer is pumped but..
Keep it in mind, no guarantees, it's just a thought on what may be the issue
 

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we never asked
Did this engine die on you, or one morning it would not start?
 
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we never asked
Did this engine die on you, or one morning it would not start?
Yeah we did...keep up old bean
187706

Before it was a non-starter, the van would have a delay in revving, & sometime not rev when depressing accelerator pedal and also revs running away after accelerator pedal was released, This all came on over the space of a hour, before that it was all running fine.
 

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Steve - just note correction in my previous post - you pull the plug on the pressure sensor (NOT the control valve) and then normally you should have the suction control valve inoperative (making pump produce max pressure)

Sorry if you tried already using wrong info.

............... unfortunately, if you cannot get fuel to the rail it may indeed be time for drastic action
 

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I don't know about the other guys but I STILL don't think its an ECU or spaghetti problem
 

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Discussion Starter #150
Steve - just note correction in my previous post - you pull the plug on the pressure sensor (NOT the control valve) and then normally you should have the suction control valve inoperative (making pump produce max pressure)

Sorry if you tried already using wrong info.

............... unfortunately, if you cannot get fuel to the rail it may indeed be time for drastic action
Thanks, I just Pulled the connector off the fuel rail pressure sensor and the buzzing from the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel pump gets even louder.
Also been cooking some Dish Of The Day : Spagetti Steve - but this time not the wiring loom, but the wiring under the engine bay fuel box and relay housing just to see if anything looksout of place before I start pulling fuses.
 

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Thanks, I just Pulled the connector off the fuel rail pressure sensor and the buzzing from the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel pump gets even louder.
Well - there you go then - IMO proof that the ECU is in fact alive and well and also still in control of the engine and is currently waiting for the fuel pump to start doing its thing. The louder buzzing from the FPR on the pump is the ECU keeping the suction valve open longer in response to not seeing ANY pressure in the rail in an attempt to make the priming/pumping on the mechanical hp pump easier - THE BUZZING IS AS DESIGNED AND NORMAL.

So me? - Id say hp pump issue - either timing or wear or component breakage ........................ this as long as you are 100% sure you have done your absolute best to prime the animal.

Why not try opening the HP lines on the injectors and swinging the motor till you see diesel (hopefully start coming out) - perhaps you have an airlock in the hp pump? ......................... if you do decide to try this make sure noboy is in the engine bay for if the pump suddenly starts working its going to literally cut off whatever is in the way of the diesel leaving that joint
 

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Discussion Starter #152
ok, so are you all sitting comfortably, then lets begin.
Todays topic is... name that relay as the Haynes workshop Manuel doesn't bother to...
187711


R6- am confident that that is Fuel pump, because when I pull it the buzzing from the pump regulator stops
BUT.. something I have noticed is when I pull
R6 ---R1 clicks into action (buzzing from pump stops when R6 is pulled)
But with R1 is left pulled and I replace R6 the buzzing comes Back,
NO MATTER IF R1 IS PULLED OR NOT R6 still makes the Fuel Pump regulator buzz constantly.

So.. pretty sure R6 is the fuel pump relay...anyone have a diagram for the others, thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #154
Well - there you go then - IMO proof that the ECU is in fact alive and well and also still in control of the engine and is currently waiting for the fuel pump to start doing its thing. The louder buzzing from the FPR on the pump is the ECU keeping the suction valve open longer in response to not seeing ANY pressure in the rail in an attempt to make the priming/pumping on the mechanical hp pump easier - THE BUZZING IS AS DESIGNED AND NORMAL.

So me? - Id say hp pump issue - either timing or wear or component breakage ........................ this as long as you are 100% sure you have done your absolute best to prime the animal.

Why not try opening the HP lines on the injectors and swinging the motor till you see diesel (hopefully start coming out) - perhaps you have an airlock in the hp pump? ......................... if you do decide to try this make sure noboy is in the engine bay for if the pump suddenly starts working its going to literally cut off whatever is in the way of the diesel leaving that joint
Yes, can try that but I still think the issue (or at least one of them) is before the pump and before the ecu feed to the pump as when I disconnect the pump am still getting volts on the grond wire to the pump which i think is confusing the pump regulator, but will try as you suggest.
 

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Yes, can try that but I still think the issue (or at least one of them) is before the pump and before the ecu feed to the pump as when I disconnect the pump am still getting volts on the grond wire to the pump which i think is confusing the pump regulator, but will try as you suggest.
No - you need to re-read what we said about variable phase control signal on the FPR solenoid's power lead - its supposed to buzz imo

THE ECU IS NOT FEEDING THE PUMP.

The fuel supply from the tank either arrives via a lift pump or a simple line via the priming bulb - the FPR opens, on the command of the ECU, inversely proportional to the fuel rail pressure in order to allow the HP pump to create higher or lower pressure/flow
 

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What LVR says makes sense Steve.
The fuel regulator is not a simple open or closed solenoid, it constantly moves at a high rate of knots.... they probably buzz anyway but moving in fuel and the engine running means we don't hear.

You checked what make of pump yet?
 

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Discussion Starter #158
No - you need to re-read what we said about variable phase control signal on the FPR solenoid's power lead - its supposed to buzz imo

THE ECU IS NOT FEEDING THE PUMP.

The fuel supply from the tank either arrives via a lift pump or a simple line via the priming bulb - the FPR opens, on the command of the ECU, inversely proportional to the fuel rail pressure in order to allow the HP pump to create higher or lower pressure/flow
The fuel supply from the tank either arrives via a lift pump or a simple line via the priming bulb - the FPR opens, on the command of the ECU, inversely proportional to the fuel rail pressure in order to allow the HP pump to create higher or lower pressure/flow
[/QUOTE]....... But if the ECU is getting funky electrical inputs, if a faulty part/ and/or connector is sending incorrect signal to ECU, then send duff info to the regulator..?
I just opened up the high pressure fuel lines (not totally and yes I know of the dangers IF there was pressure there) tirned her over and its a trickle, primed bulb tried again, same .. both with fuel rail pressure sensor connected and disconnected... tightened them all back up, still same.
 

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Discussion Starter #159
What LVR says makes sense Steve.
The fuel regulator is not a simple open or closed solenoid, it constantly moves at a high rate of knots.... they probably buzz anyway but moving in fuel and the engine running means we don't hear.

You checked what make of pump yet?
Sorry, forgot about the make, its a ..............
Botch.. sorry I mead BOSCH
 

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Discussion Starter #160
No - you need to re-read what we said about variable phase control signal on the FPR solenoid's power lead - its supposed to buzz imo

THE ECU IS NOT FEEDING THE PUMP.

The fuel supply from the tank either arrives via a lift pump or a simple line via the priming bulb - the FPR opens, on the command of the ECU, inversely proportional to the fuel rail pressure in order to allow the HP pump to create higher or lower pressure/flow
So me chasing the 3v on ground wire could be a red herring?
 
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