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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Guys
This is my 1992 Renault Trafic Auto Sleeper. I will try and provide good accurate information here... We are midway through the restoration (the first pic is a early one...much progressed now). I have hit on a major problem. I have ZERO electrics at the (new ignition).

Please can anyone point me in the right direction on where I should be testing to get some idea just what the heck has gone wrong. I guess it could be an earth problem but I am new to auto electrics.

Info:

Prior to pulling the dashboard:
  1. The vehicle started first time
  2. The dashboard has been modified with a three way switch and push button, all which were connected (I have been told this was to start the vehicle but I have doubts - see pic)
  3. All electrics were working except indicators (which I put down to a blown fuse not checked at time)
In order to fix up interior and carry out welding, I pulled all the dashboard about 4 weeks ago. While the dash was out I:
  • Jet-washed the engine bay
  • Took out the radio
  • Removed the 12v engine bay battery (and recharged it)
  • Also had to cut the loom to the rear lights (as chassis was being completely rebuilt)
Now having restored all the interior, I put the battery back, installed a new ignition switch and re-soldered the loom to its original state. But now...ZERO electrics at the ignition switch. Nada! After some initial exploration (and cleaning up of two visible earths in the engine bay and the engine earth, below the alternator) I have 12v at:
  • Timer unit
  • Starter motor
But NOTHING at all when I turn on the ignition. I have followed Renoir White's fuse board... but the fuses are ALL different to his I have noticed. See attached pics... Even some 25 amp fuses in there which doesn't seem right. HELP guys!!!

MATT


(Renoir White's fuse layout for 1990 Renault Trafic)

Fuse 1 = 16A Flasher unit (a 10A was fitted .. now corrected)
Fuse 2 = 5A LH Side & Rear Light & Instrument Panel (a 25A was fitted ... now corrected. Also this circuit is actually for RH lights).
Fuse 3 = 5A RH Side & Rear Light, Cigar lighter light (actually LH lights)
Fuse 4 = 10A Radio & Heater Blower (a 5A was fitted ... now corrected)
Fuse 5 = Not Used
Fuse 6 = 5A Interior Lights (an 8A was fitted .. now corrected)
Fuse 7 = 5a Windscreen Wiper 'park' timer
Fuse 8 = Not Used
Fuse 9 = Not Used
Fuse 10 = 16A Heated Rear Screens
Fuse 11 = 16A Engine Cooling Fan
Fuse 12 = Not Used
Fuse 13 = 10A Reversing light & cigar lighter
Fuse 14 = Does not exist
Fuse 15 = 8A Windscreen wipers & washers
Fuse 16 = 5a Instrument panel
Fuse 17 = 10A Heated Seat (I have removed this fuse for the time being .. there is a permanent live feed to one side of the fuse terminal with the ignition on but there is no earth on the other side. I need to investigate this further but in the meantime all essential circuits are working normally now.)
Fuse 18 = 5A Rear Foglight (a 25A was fitted ... now corrected)
Fuse 19 = 5A Stoplights

Matt



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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Ok SO you have 12 volts at the trigger wire of the starter, or the main feed from battery you have 12 volts..?

( Might as well ask before RW asks you to check )
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Hi Matt
Sorting out other owners electrics is a headache ... but these vans are as simple as can be.
Unfortunately there are no decent wiring diagrams .... there is one in the Russeks book but its too small and crammed to follow.
My first question is do you possess a multi-meter or power probe and are you competent in following circuits?
Is there any immobiliser fitted?

Just noticed from your other thread that you have a diesel ... I know nothing about diesels so not so certain on the electrics for start up .... Ours is the expert for this.

(No Stu I wasn't going to ask that question :D )
 
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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Now looking again at the keys does your original key have a coded chip in it and because you have changed the ignition, its now immobilised

Just asking,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
WOW guys, so amazing you have all replied so quickly!!! I have EDITED my original post to give more information on all of this err... mystery. Let me ponder your replies. Here are some initial answers

  • Yes, I have a multimeter and I am proficient in the very basics of testing (i.e. black to earth... red to whatever to check for voltages etc)
  • I am not that competent in following circuits but possess a basic understanding
  • There is NO immobiliser.
  • The vehicle was hot-wired BUT IT IS NOT STOLEN HAHAHAHAH!!!! Bought from Howitt Motors in Dumfries from British Auctions - Vehicle registration just received at Howitts yesterday due to Covid delays.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok SO you have 12 volts at the trigger wire of the starter, or the main feed from battery you have 12 volts..?

( Might as well ask before RW asks you to check )
Hi. I definitely have 12v on the main feed from the battery. Just going to go check if I can see the starter wire and check that. Thanks.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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For what its worth my van lost all electrics when the ignition switch packed up too but fitting a new one put things back to work. Unplug the connectors and check you have continuity across the switch terminals when you turn the key (just to rule out you havn't fitted a brand new faulty switch).
Incidentally the ignition switch is wired directly to the starter with heavy duty 30A cables ... iirc there is no fuse between them.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
For what its worth my van lost all electrics when the ignition switch packed up too but fitting a new one put things back to work. Unplug the connectors and check you have continuity across the switch terminals when you turn the key (just to rule out you havn't fitted a brand new faulty switch).
Incidentally the ignition switch is wired directly to the starter with heavy duty 30A cables ... iirc there is no fuse between them.
I have checked the new ignition switch for continuity and it is perfect on both the black and grey connectors. Continuity all the way
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Have you a length of wire to hand? With the van in neutral if you run a wire from battery positive and touch the other end on the connector on the starter solonoid the engine should crank over (the little nut at the back of the solooid). If that works then we can work back from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Have you a length of wire to hand? With the van in neutral if you run a wire from battery positive and touch the other end on the connector on the starter solonoid the engine should crank over (the little nut at the back of the solooid). If that works then we can work back from there.
Just checked it! Definitely turning the starter motor. Almost set fire to the cable though! But yes I have a working starter motor it seems.
How do I test the trigger wire Renoir? I posted a pic... can you tell me which is the trigger wire (see pic further up the post) and do I need to disconnect it and get Mum to turn the ignition? I presume I do?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just checked it! Definitely turning the starter motor. Almost set fire to the cable though! But yes I have a working starter motor it seems.
How do I test the trigger wire Renoir? I posted a pic... can you tell me which is the trigger wire (see pic further up the post) and do I need to disconnect it and get Mum to turn the ignition? I presume I do?
Is that red baby above the solonoid, the trigger wire? Or is it the black wire, that goes to the same terminal? I'm confused.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Trigger wire , You need to find it first from the ignition switch..


Ignition switch simple explanation
When ignition is first switched on, it powers a set of circuits on the car * Dash indicators engine electrics ) but when the key is turned to the start position this powers the trigger wire

Now depending on Ignition switch internal set up, can be power goes to position 1 ( Just ignition switched on ) Or through power 1 and still powers trigger wire when key is turned

When you turn the key to the start position, power from the battery is allowed through the switch to the starter ( Trigger wire supply )

so you need to at least find this supply

Try this method,


Disconnect ALL your wires from the ignition switch
You need to find what two wires on your ignition switch that allows power in and power out, only when ignition switch ( key ) is turned to start position

Meter on ohms , , Place the meter probe into one of the red wire connectors , now put the other probe into the yellow wire, and turn the key,,
If not that one, try the other red but try all wires until you get a pair when the key is turned to start position
So now you have found your ignition switch trigger feed The one that makes the meter read 0 when ignition key is turned

DISCONNECT the battery
With a length of wire ( This really will be the easy way, as you dont know what else has been messed with )

Connect the length of wire to the trigger wire on the starter, and run it up the side, make sure this wire is long enough to reach inside the van, close to the ignition switch

So now you will have in theory two trigger wires, one already from the loom, with one you have just installed..
But out of all the wires that are floating about, you cannot say which is which

With you meter on ohms
put one probe on your new trigger feed, join it together some how ( Tape the trigger wire to the probe metal tip ) unless you can think of another way

With your other probe, test the other wires hanging around, you should now find your trigger wire could be in the plug that you have disconnected from ignition switch

TAPE/mark the trigger wire , disconnect your TRIGGER wire that you have made up

Reconnect the battery ,

Now the two plugs you disconnected off the ignition switch One wire at least should have power Find this,,, Now work out how this plug fits the ignition switch
Would this power supply feed the trigger wire ,
You can now try using your meter on DC , and check,

NOT a clue what the relays are for, are they relays, one looks like an indicator relay from years ago.
Could even be a resistor for the instrument cluster taking it down from 12 volts to 9 ( Should/could this be fitted to your van not a clue )
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Here is my trigger wire .... from inside the cab its the thin single mauve wire running out of the loom and along the base of the engine to the solonoid. Considering its just resting on the gearbox housing and along the base of the block plus its under my exhaust manifold/downpipe its in a perilous position that just ripe for shorts and getting the sleeving baked.
Perhaps yours is similar in layout?

EDIT SORRY MATT I SELECTED THE WRONG IMAGE. HERE IS ANOTHER PIC OF THE BACK OF MY STARTER ......the trigger wire is the thin pale yellow wire you can see going to the solonoid.
That mauve wire I recall runs through to my oil pressure switch .... doh!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here is my trigger wire .... from inside the cab its the thin single mauve wire running out of the loom and along the base of the engine to the solonoid. Considering its just resting on the gearbox housing and along the base of the block plus its under my exhaust manifold/downpipe its in a perilous position that just ripe for shorts and getting the sleeving baked.
Perhaps yours is similar in layout?
Blimey. Renoir, thanks. I will get back to the job tomorrow. Cheers chaps. Matt
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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That would have been wrapped up in corrugated sleeve if mine, bloody hell thats dangerous RW
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Here is my trigger wire .... from inside the cab its the thin single mauve wire running out of the loom and along the base of the engine to the solonoid. Considering its just resting on the gearbox housing and along the base of the block plus its under my exhaust manifold/downpipe its in a perilous position that just ripe for shorts and getting the sleeving baked.
Perhaps yours is similar in layout?
Hi Renoir, I'm really sorry to ask another stupid question. But I still need clarification of where this wire actually joins onto at the starter motor end. In the picture I sent previously, where does that trigger wire run to? Can you take a look at my picture and tell me what these big wires terminating on the engine actually are?...
184617
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Trigger wire , You need to find it first from the ignition switch..


Ignition switch simple explanation
When ignition is first switched on, it powers a set of circuits on the car * Dash indicators engine electrics ) but when the key is turned to the start position this powers the trigger wire

Now depending on Ignition switch internal set up, can be power goes to position 1 ( Just ignition switched on ) Or through power 1 and still powers trigger wire when key is turned

When you turn the key to the start position, power from the battery is allowed through the switch to the starter ( Trigger wire supply )

so you need to at least find this supply

Try this method,


Disconnect ALL your wires from the ignition switch
You need to find what two wires on your ignition switch that allows power in and power out, only when ignition switch ( key ) is turned to start position

Meter on ohms , , Place the meter probe into one of the red wire connectors , now put the other probe into the yellow wire, and turn the key,,
If not that one, try the other red but try all wires until you get a pair when the key is turned to start position
So now you have found your ignition switch trigger feed The one that makes the meter read 0 when ignition key is turned

DISCONNECT the battery
With a length of wire ( This really will be the easy way, as you dont know what else has been messed with )

Connect the length of wire to the trigger wire on the starter, and run it up the side, make sure this wire is long enough to reach inside the van, close to the ignition switch

So now you will have in theory two trigger wires, one already from the loom, with one you have just installed..
But out of all the wires that are floating about, you cannot say which is which

With you meter on ohms
put one probe on your new trigger feed, join it together some how ( Tape the trigger wire to the probe metal tip ) unless you can think of another way

With your other probe, test the other wires hanging around, you should now find your trigger wire could be in the plug that you have disconnected from ignition switch

TAPE/mark the trigger wire , disconnect your TRIGGER wire that you have made up

Reconnect the battery ,

Now the two plugs you disconnected off the ignition switch One wire at least should have power Find this,,, Now work out how this plug fits the ignition switch
Would this power supply feed the trigger wire ,
You can now try using your meter on DC , and check,

NOT a clue what the relays are for, are they relays, one looks like an indicator relay from years ago.
Could even be a resistor for the instrument cluster taking it down from 12 volts to 9 ( Should/could this be fitted to your van not a clue )
Ours12, I am going out this morning and have to work this afternoon. I will start thinking about this approach at the end of today and see if I can do some diagnostics around 4pm this afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Guys. Another fundamental question. Do you have any idea why I have absolutely nothing on my dashboard when I switch ignition to position 1? Is this a fuse on the fuse board? What could be the reasons for this?
 
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