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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Already explained this for you , but here it is again

Ignition switch simple explanation
When ignition is first switched on, it powers a set of circuits on the car ** Dash indicators engine electrics ** but when the key is turned to the start position this powers the trigger wire
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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IMPORTANT .... have edited my post & pics going back 5 posts above.
 

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  1. The dashboard has been modified with a three way switch and push button, all which were connected (I have been told this was to start the vehicle but I have doubts - see pic)
Is this anything to do with the glow plugs? (I'm just thinking back to a works Merc 207 I use to drive that had a switch on the dash that had to be turned to activate the glow plugs for the first fire up of the day).

How did you start the van with the 'hot-wire' arrangement before you commenced fitting the new ignition switch.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Hi Renoir, I'm really sorry to ask another stupid question. But I still need clarification of where this wire actually joins onto at the starter motor end. In the picture I sent previously, where does that trigger wire run to? Can you take a look at my picture and tell me what these big wires terminating on the engine actually are?...
There are no stupid questions. I've no idea about those big wires on the block .... probably a circuit variation for diesel versions. Tracing where wires connect to is challenging at they emerge from the loom with no clear indication of where they connect at the other end .... especially when there's a junction and they change colours. Sometimes you have to apply logical guesswork and follow your hunches.
When I'm doing a job I often find it helpful to take lots of photos of everything then at leisure browse back over them on a laptop .... it surprising what you can identify looking back on a bigger screen and helpful when parts are hidden from plain view.
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Your trigger wire,

Get at your starter motor, you should see two wires.
One thick one, one thin one, its the thin one,
Could be held on by a nut, or held on by a female push on connector
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Okay guys. Update! I now know definitely that the WHITE wire in my previous pic is my Trigger wire. I completely ran out of time today
Your trigger wire,

Get at your starter motor, you should see two wires.
One thick one, one thin one, its the thin one,
Could be held on by a nut, or held on by a female push on connector
Okay guys. Update! I now know definitely that the WHITE wire in my previous pic is my Trigger wire. I completely ran out of time today. Can we now go from here?...
I have traced back the trigger wire, and it goes to the very centre notch in the block that connects to the main loom coming from the dash. There is continuity as far as the block. I have not tried yet, but using ours2012's tips I reckon I will be able to hash up something to 'trick' the trigger wire from the new ignition switch using a fly lead running outside the door of the cab into the engine bay. But I don't there is really any doubts over the starter motor/trigger wire. It just doesn't feel like this is the issue.

Can we go back to the next important question for me. What stands between getting power to the Engine electrics (i.e. the lights, sensors, primer to the fuel pump/timer switching on... ALL this is meant to come on, with the first 'click' of the ignition and even more 'fully' at click two, just below final ignition position 3 on the ignition switch. I just have absolutely NOTHING when I engage even one click on the ignition switch....

  • Are the engine electrics at position 1 on the ignition switch normally fused?
  • Could I have knocked out a fuse? Would that prevent any power to click one on the ignition?
  • Could it be, where they have patched in the Leisure battery? (Renoir?) - It all seems correct, but they have DEFINITELY spurred off, the trigger wire to the relay that goes to the leisure battery... could this be what is stopping me getting any power?
  • Could it be a poor earth? (If so, where can I investigate/look?
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Would your van still have the oval plate fitted
Should be seen as you open the drivers door.
If yes can you post a picture of it

Struggling to find a fuse box layout that matches yours..
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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  • Could it be, where they have patched in the Leisure battery? (Renoir?) - It all seems correct, but they have DEFINITELY spurred off, the trigger wire to the relay that goes to the leisure battery... could this be what is stopping me getting any power?
  • Could it be a poor earth? (If so, where can I investigate/look?
I'm trying to recollect when my van died of electrics ....... the previous owner had wired a 'secret' switch spurred with a scotchlock (I've never liked these ... I would rather make a proper connection) from the steering column wiring. I think this had cut through and weakened the wire causing it to break inside. The AA man removed this switch and made good the wire and power was restored. I think it was on one of the thick red cables.
Might be worth you looking at all your wires down the column closely and checking for any kinks or damage etc.
 
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Discussion Starter #29
Would your van still have the oval plate fitted
Should be seen as you open the drivers door.
If yes can you post a picture of it

Struggling to find a fuse box layout that matches yours..
Nope.
No oval plate anymore. Not sure why.
I have the vin number though if that is any help.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Can we go back to the next important question for me. What stands between getting power to the Engine electrics (i.e. the lights, sensors, primer to the fuel pump/timer switching on... ALL this is meant to come on, with the first 'click' of the ignition and even more 'fully' at click two, just below final ignition position 3 on the ignition switch. I just have absolutely NOTHING when I engage even one click on the ignition switch....

  • Are the engine electrics at position 1 on the ignition switch normally fused?
  • Could I have knocked out a fuse? Would that prevent any power to click one on the ignition?
  • Could it be, where they have patched in the Leisure battery? (Renoir?) - It all seems correct, but they have DEFINITELY spurred off, the trigger wire to the relay that goes to the leisure battery... could this be what is stopping me getting any power?
  • Could it be a poor earth? (If so, where can I investigate/look?
Another approach while you are fault tracing

(a) Fully remove the leisure battery
(b) take fuses out of the zig unit
(b) Remove all fuses from the dashboard fuse panel

This will isolate any short circuits anywhere if they exist. Then with the ignition on Pos 1 start tracing the fuse and circuit(s) for only the engine glow plugs/ignition.
You can sort out the other fuses for heater/lights/indicators/radio/split -charge etc etc one by one as you go forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Another approach while you are fault tracing

(a) Fully remove the leisure battery
(b) take fuses out of the zig unit
(b) Remove all fuses from the dashboard fuse panel

This will isolate any short circuits anywhere if they exist. Then with the ignition on Pos 1 start tracing the fuse and circuit(s) for only the engine glow plugs/ignition.
You can sort out the other fuses for heater/lights/indicators/radio/split -charge etc etc one by one as you go forward.
Guys
Can you confirm whether there actually is a fuse that controls the glow plug timer relay?
Matt
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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Mat is this a diesel then ?
 

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Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
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post your vin, see if we can get any info from it if no plate anywhere on your camper
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Another approach while you are fault tracing

(a) Fully remove the leisure battery
(b) take fuses out of the zig unit
(b) Remove all fuses from the dashboard fuse panel

This will isolate any short circuits anywhere if they exist. Then with the ignition on Pos 1 start tracing the fuse and circuit(s) for only the engine glow plugs/ignition.
You can sort out the other fuses for heater/lights/indicators/radio/split -charge etc etc one by one as you go forward.
Hey Renoir...
So you're saying remove ALL the fuses from the fuse board in the dashboard? Okay
How do I then "start tracing the fuse and circuit(s) for only the engine glow plugs/ignition?"

You'll have to excuse me. I know how to use a tester, but I am totally new to auto electrics.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Hey Renoir...
So you're saying remove ALL the fuses from the fuse board in the dashboard? Okay
How do I then "start tracing the fuse and circuit(s) for only the engine glow plugs/ignition?"

You'll have to excuse me. I know how to use a tester, but I am totally new to auto electrics.
Yes (take photo or notes before removing them) then with ignition switched on check across each pair of contacts until you find voltage .... then refit the appropriate fuse and hopefully the relevant circuit will come to life.
If not you'll have to start tracing individual wires. Its a case of simplifying the task as much as possible and isolating the chance of current shorting into another circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Yes (take photo or notes before removing them) then with ignition switched on check across each pair of contacts until you find voltage .... then refit the appropriate fuse and hopefully the relevant circuit will come to life.
If not you'll have to start tracing individual wires. Its a case of simplifying the task as much as possible and isolating the chance of current shorting into another circuit.
Renoir
Do you have an idea where all the earthing points are on the van?
I feel I need to check absolutely anywhere, where the electrics are earthed first. I spent 2 hours thoroughly cleaning the fuse board yesterday and checking all the fuses. A couple of points were out, but when I put the board back nothing changed. still dead.

I found this:


Can you read it and tell me whether you think this is reliable instructions on how to check ALL the feeds coming from the battery. I certainly haven't done all, of what is listed so it feels like a good start point.
Remember that I jet washed the entire engine and this vehicle has been left standing now with the electrics off/dashboard exposed for over 8 weeks. There is a lot of corrosion on the vehicle also.
 

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Technical Supremo, Platinum Member
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Renoir
Do you have an idea where all the earthing points are on the van?
In a word . No But usually one off the battery and one around the gearbox area.

I found this:


Can you read it and tell me whether you think this is reliable instructions on how to check ALL the feeds coming from the battery.

Yes it seems to make good sense.


Remember that I jet washed the entire engine and this vehicle has been left standing now with the electrics off/dashboard exposed for over 8 weeks. There is a lot of corrosion on the vehicle also.
Lets retrace your steps ... when you bought the van you drove it home. Had you driven the van or started it up several times since then?
Did you jetwash with a high or low pressure hose? Did you seal any electrics prior to washing? Did you wash both the block and whole of the engine bay?
Did you start the van after jet washing?
Did you fit the new ignition switch before or after jetwashing?
Have you tried retro-fitting the 'hot-wire' arrangement?
Has the battery been charged since standing 8 weeks or have you another battery to fit in place (rather than use jump leads)?
Basically this non-working is because of something you've done in this period. The leads off the battery are vulnerable to cracking at the terminal ends (at both ends) as are the wires to the back of the alternator.
(I recall having my FSO jet washed when I bought it then the alternator charge light remained on all the time. Took it to an auto-electrician and he said he's seen dozens of cars come through his hands where electric problems had developed after jet-washing.... he said its the worse thing you can do. Just clean with degreaser and rags is best advice.)
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Hi chaps. I STILL have no power at the fuse board. It stinks of a bad earth. I appear to have a good earth on my bodywork and a good earth to engine. I cannot see a third 'mystery' earth on the gearbox on this Trafic. GUYS is there a Ground on the Starter Motor I have missed? It really feels like a ground issue. Nothing at position 1, 2 or 3 on the ignition MUST be a battery or grounding issue would you agree?

It is peeing down with rain ALL day here in Scotland. Confess haven't had chance to look.
 
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