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Discussion Starter #1
hi all just after some advice on buying a bigger car , ive had many lagunas and a new traffic van and both had 1.9 dcis and both had problems,

but we have had another baby and need a people carrier , i really like the look etc of the grand espace and have seen a nice looking 2005 initiale with the 3.0 v6 dci, i have read lots of horror stories with these and wondering if i should avoid or go ahead with the purchase, its got full service history at dealer last inc timing belts,all oils,inc service on the auto box, are there a lot of problems to look out for ??
any help or advice would be great thanks again for all your help:confused:
 

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I would rather have a trafic crew cab, cheaper to tax, better on fuel and six seats with a bigger boot that won't crush the rear passengers should it get run into. If you buy the espace just get a good warraty for piece of mind.
 

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Hi I've had three french cars in the last three years, personally i'd be inclined towards toyota as in the past when i've driven them they've been really comfortable. Yet car makes are really all down to personal choice.

also Rentech makes a very valid point, with the price of diesel rising, or at least it is here anyway, tax and insurance a smaller engine vehicle would be far more easier on the pocket.

on the plus side for the espace, a full service history is always a good thing to have...

hope this helps a little bit and congrats on the kid.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks, its number 4 now and thats it lol, been looking at all people carriers for looks spec etc the grand espace is the best the galaxy/sharans i have seen for around 5/6k just look n feel crap, ive seen some 807/c8s but they too dont look or feel anything like it , will all 3.0 v6 dci s be prone to failure or does it all depend on how it was kept
 

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will all 3.0 v6 dci s be prone to failure or does it all depend on how it was kept
It doesn't necessarily depend on how the car was treated, many of the faults which led to the horror stories you have read are inherent in the design or manufacturing standards. I have copied below the response I posted to a similar question recently. I have not edited it so if there seem to be answers to questions you have not asked please excuse them. You are lucky that you have researched the model before you boought one, I wish I had the foresight to do the same.

At the end of the day of course, it's your call and your money. At least you know what you are letting yourself in for. There is a reason why these cars, especially the 3.0 dci are cheap.




"Having been down that road and still wearing the t-shirt I would strongly advise against any pre 2006 MkIV 3.0 dci. If you are convinced that this is the engine you want then search 3.0 dci on this forum first.

Pre 2006 models use the P9X engine which was designed by General Motors and built by Isuzu under their code 6DE3. The engine was originally designed for the Vauxhall / Opel Signum project but never made it in to them. It was used in the Vectra, it was also used by Saab as the 3.0 TiD as well of course as by Renault in the Vel satis, Espace and Grand Espace. Both Saab and GM dropped the engine after short production runs due to the high number of total failure warranty claims they were receiving. Isuzu ceased production of the engine caliming design faults and the license for it returned to GM. whilst Saab and GM stopped using it Renault continued fitting it into 2006.
There are several inherant design problems coupled with the fact that the relative rarity of the engine means that non Renault sources don't carry parts and orginal equipment parts are hugely expensive. The fact the the engine is transversely mounted means that the entire rear bank is inaccessible without dropping the engine out.

Major faults include dropped cylinder liners (replacement engine and turbo, circa £8k new, £3.5k recon), premature high pressure diesel pump failures (pump rebuild circa £3.5k), premature EGR valve failures (replacement circa £750), Injector failure (not happened in mine yet, but injectors rrp is £150 each x 6 plus labour), failed engine mounts, countless electronic issues which due to the multiplexed computer system can be almost impossible to trace, even with the full diagnostic equipment, most common is dashboard failure, automatic park brake failure, immobiliser problems, abs problems. They also suffer from problems with the induction system, split intercoolers are common as are blown pipes and split resonators.

If I haven't put you off, and I sincerely hope that I have then you MUST find one which has had the engine changed, and check with the garage who changed it that the replacement used the redesigned block with "top hat" liners, otherwise engine life expectancy is sub 50k miles. My Espace had a new engine and turbo under warranty at 48k miles but alas the problems don't end there.

Insist on seeing any potential purchase with a cold engine, try and view it first thing in the morning before the garage can start it and warm it up. Have someone start it from cold and look for any smoke from the exhaust as it starts. give it a good test run including a patch of motorway / dual carriageway. Accelerate hard and watch for smoke haze behind you. Cruise along for at least a mile at 50mph in 5th manual then try to acclerate without changing down. Check for smooth power delivery and again, smoke haze behind you. Smoke, or the engine hunting for power are indicative of injection or turbo problems. Ensure that gear change is smooth even under heavy load. then brake sharply immediately after the hard acceleration and make sure that the down shift is equally smooth. Any jerkiness in the down shift is also indicative of an injection fault.

Make sure that the engine oil is changed at least every 10k miles regardless of service interval reccomendations and that the correct oil standard is used, fully synthetic of course. Don't just go with the viscosity rating, renault specify a specific acea rating. the lump uses just short of 8 litres a time at around £15/litre. Fuel and air filters must be changed regularly too.

Fuel economy is shocking, short runs from cold (school run etc) can return single figures, prolonged town driving will not get much above 20mpg though a good run on the motorway will get you 40+.

As for price these cars are pigs, and dealers know that so haggle hard and be prepared to walk away. You'll get sweet f.a. for it as trade in IF you can even find a dealer that will take it so expect it to be a rest of life "into the ground" purchase.

And finally warranty. I considered a warranty direct cover on mine but decided against it. Check all the small print especially with regard to labour cost, they originally quoted me max of £45/hour which is useless on this car. There are so many things that only renault can do (be aware that many components like injectors, fuel pump etc are programmed to the car and that few if any non main dealers carry the equipment to do it) that you must have full main dealer labour cover. Also check that there is not a single item value limit, my first quote was limited to £2000 for any fault. Once the labour cost and claim limit was removed they quoted me £1900 for two years on a 70k 7 year old car.

Even then, the limit per fault was still the "commercial trade value" of the car, and so a major fault like blown engine or diesel pump would not have been covered because the commercial trade value of these things is so low, thanks to their reputation.

I'm no great fan of the Chrysler myself, though have no experience of them. I looked at the Espace vs the Chrysler (LPG) vs a Kia (2.9 Diesel) when I bought. The only thing I know for sure is that I could not have done any worse then buying the Espace."
 

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There is an old saying in the motor trade.

If you're going to drive a transverse V6 engined car be prepared to have deep pockets.

That just doesn't apply to Renaults by the way.:)
 

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Think about £55 for an oil filter from Renault...

That's what it was for my VS.

Paul
 

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Unless a 3.0 dCi is very cheap, I'd probably go for a four-cylinder diesel. So good and powerful have 2.0 litre diesels been for some time now that larger six-cylinder ones seems hardly worth the trouble and expense for the marginal extra performance you get.
I remember this being a consideration back in 1970's New Zealand, where the 318 V8-powered Chrysler Valiant (230 bhp) was practically ignored in favour of the cheaper 265 Hemi 6-cylinder variant (205 bhp). I think the 3.0 dCi (180 bhp) is as pointless vis-a-vis the 2.2 (140 bhp) as the 318 was all that time ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
it is a private sale i have been to look at it he has owned it from new it has done quite high miles 90k nearly its got full service history every time at renault its pretty immaculate every thing seems to work correctly no smoke etc its pretty cheap 3700 its an initiale model is it worth a gamble it really looks and sounds new i didnt ask if it had a new engine tho
 

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£3700 is a good price for that spec. I just paid 6800 for a late 06 one with FSH & 90k on the clock in very good nick, after shopping around quite a bit and thought that was an OK price. We were sold on the mega sunroof really.

If I'd seen the one you have in mind I'd probably have taken it - there's zero benefit in buying from dealers these days when you can do your own HPI check & buy your own warranty etc.

Maybe things really are cheaper up north ;-)

We have a Warranty Direct policy on the car for main dealers, costs £500/year.

Tax is a b-arch on these, being the highest band. £450 :eek:


140 vs. 180BHP? I haven't read much overall (yes, factoring in the advice from d'Espacebetweenmyhears hereabouts) to say that the smaller engines last any longer - have rung 4 Renault dealers and spoken to head mechanics who said much the same. A solid FSH and no overly-visible smoke is about all you can do, barring getting a mechanic to check it over as well.

We are only really using if for holidays when it will be fully loaded (450L roofbox, 5-6 people + Labrador, 4 bikes, trailer, big tent, sink, etc) for me drivability under heavy load is more important than about-town economy. It gets 35MPG doing 80MPH along with everyone else, which isn't bad for a 1900kg garden shed on wheels.

And of course watching the Youtube crashtests of Espace's is always peace of mind.

Cheers

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #11
its a 2005 54 plate, does that make any difference on the engines?? i love it but just concerned of the problems i have read on the 3.0 dci , there must be some good ones out there??
 

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I do not think DCI and good should ever be used in the same sentence

As lag once said
DCI = Death Comes Instantly :)

I love espaces as you say they are better than most alternatives BUT the dci engine is very poor and hard to work with
 

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Discussion Starter #15
its off a friend of a family member but with the problems ive heard im still on the fence of the sale , hes had it from new so i would of thought it would be ok,but theres still no warranty lol he said he had it in autotrader for 4500 and no one rang apart from a company who could advertise it for him lol, they have a new car now as dont need 6 seats any more ive driving past it for the last 5 years on the way to work lol, he wants 37 for it as that what webuyanycar have offered him for it
 

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The price is lower than what eBay or Autotrader would have you believe is 'market' value.

If you are confident it's got a good history/no known issues, and you want the 3.0, either sign up to warranty direct or pop £1500 in the bank to cover you for 3 years warranty and cross fingers.

Maybe spend £75 getting a Renault dealer to check it over?

I understand a pressure and leak test can be done with not too much trouble. Anyone else had experience on pre-purchase checks?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
its just had timing belts full service inc gearbox oils etc all done at the dealers wouldnt of thought he would of spent that sort of money if it was a dud?? dont know how id approach him with the idea of a pressure test lol, have you had any issues with yours mike??
 

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in 7 days of ownership? Bloody well hope not ;-)

Just ask if you can take it for a checkup, for peace of mind. Tell him it's needed for the warranty you want to get.

Obviously talk to the dealer first about what they can and can't test for the money you are prepared to pay. I might have been off the mark WRT getting an injector pressure test/turbo leak test done for that sort of cash.
 
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