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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok I read all sorts of reliability scare stories amongst other places on Parkers user reviews. Only just registered here and already the comments on the tyres and pressure sensors are reassuring. Then there's scare stories about warranties not covering anything.

So, about to dive in on an Initiale 1.9 or 2.2 Dci 2002 or 2003, mileage 60-80k for around £5k. It looks a good deal but will poor reliability likely spoil the party?

Any comments much appreciated, bearing in mind I want to put a deposit on this w/e :d

Cheers.

Edit: Some of the comments were about really bad fuel economy - surely this can't be for real, you must be able to recreate manufacturer figures - or nearly - right? Or are all these posts just from rival dealerships or the unlucky few....?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Done some more reading and it sounds like regular oil changes are key, and having the new belted intercooler, although electrical gremlins still can be an issue... fair assessment?

What mpg can I expect from a 2.2 at 90mph on a drive across France?

Cheers!.
 

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What mpg can I expect from a 2.2 at 90mph on a drive across France?

Cheers!.
You will see the needle move, you wont know whether its the speedo or the fuel gauge:p

The 2.2dci will be a great cruiser you should expect mid 40's at those speeds, drop to 75mph & you might see 50mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
mmm cruising sounds good :)

what's the stereo like!

Cheers.

btw I'm not fussed tourer or hatch although there's not too much room on the street for parking so hatch would be better in that respect...
 

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Read any forum and you'll get lots of bad news stories, thats the nature of the beast. There are also lots of happy owners out there. As you say regular oil changes are good also don't forget the cambelt.
Finally you have taken the best step in saving money and preventing costly repairs, you joined Renault Forums. I have saved plenty of £££ since joining and I am not alone, also it's a fun community.
 

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Hi

I've got a 2.2 dci and I love it but not what it costs me to keep on the road :( !
Fuel economy expect no better than 28-35 on mixed driving and perhaps 45-55 if you can keep a steady 70-80 in 6th gear. Mine goes to visit the inlaws in southern Belgium 3 or 4 times a year and the best we've got is around 56 - but that was driving at 70 kph for 15 km -difficult and boring. Typically we get 42-48 mpg.
Woes from me
key card open button stopped working (£75 + reprogramming)
front electric window mechanisms (not motors) stopped working- find some on ebay (£60-90), DON'T use Renault (£333) + labour (count 1 hr)
"limp home mode" on several occasions with copious black smoke out of the back.
Had all the speedo replaced as Renault removed the battery and defaulted it to km; kph, l, etc. No return to mph possible, but thankfully replaced free under warranty.
Stereo is great.
Rear visibility is poor, so get the Initiale with sensors as standard, or a Privilige with them fitted. The hatches have it as standard.
can anyone recommend an independant Renault specialist in Oxfordshire?

Good luck, choose carefully!

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hi

I've got a 2.2 dci and I love it but not what it costs me to keep on the road :( !
Fuel economy expect no better than 28-35 on mixed driving and perhaps 45-55 if you can keep a steady 70-80 in 6th gear. Mine goes to visit the inlaws in southern Belgium 3 or 4 times a year and the best we've got is around 56 - but that was driving at 70 kph for 15 km -difficult and boring. Typically we get 42-48 mpg.
Woes from me
key card open button stopped working (£75 + reprogramming)
front electric window mechanisms (not motors) stopped working- find some on ebay (£60-90), DON'T use Renault (£333) + labour (count 1 hr)
"limp home mode" on several occasions with copious black smoke out of the back.
Had all the speedo replaced as Renault removed the battery and defaulted it to km; kph, l, etc. No return to mph possible, but thankfully replaced free under warranty.
Stereo is great.
Rear visibility is poor, so get the Initiale with sensors as standard, or a Privilige with them fitted. The hatches have it as standard.
can anyone recommend an independant Renault specialist in Oxfordshire?

Good luck, choose carefully!

Paul
Cheers Paul! At least you didn't have the blown turbo! There were a few gear box failures in odd posts but that's the thing with forums there's no way of telling how representative they are. I'm reassured from here to see all the recommended fixes. Half of the really bad reviews I figure were written by mugs! I guess the other half were unlucky...

Its 700 miles down to Nimes and if I can do that on one tank I'll be well pleased. The missus may get a bit of a shock though as she'll drive it during the week :rofl:

Not fussed about rear visibility. What causes the limp home mode? Gotta be embarrassing eh?!

Edit: card reprogramming for £75 is expensive - it can only take them a minute to do? Do different dealers charge different prices...?
 

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Well, my calculations suggest that the 70L tank i.e. 15.4 gall should make Nimes possible in one refill.
BUT
fill up in France, as diesel is so much cheaper!
Beware the speed cameras, there are lots in France and the fines are steep. Foreigners are an easy target!
By the way, it's actually a new key card which is £75, reprogramming is allegedly around £30 (my new card is on order).
As for Limp Home Mode - I wished I knew! The black looks you get when you drive around with black smoke (think James Bond movie, you'll understand!) spewing out the back are unreal. And you can't get up hills anymore without resorting to 4th gear. Usually a (spurious) injection fault. Apparently LHM is a safety feature to keep you from damaging the engine, but needs to be reset by a Renault dealer.
One of those electrical glitches Renault are famous for :rolleyes: !
 

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I was unlucky enough to have turbo problems at 16k odd but thereafter and so far touch wood, the drive is great.

Check the cars got FSH, it would be cool if you could find one thats already had the cam belt changed because thats not cheap and is due at either 5 years or 70k going to work and back in full traffic, I'm getting 33ish MPG on the Mways I'm returning anything up to 50 MPG but like you would expect this depends very much on your driving style.

Over a week doing nothing other than use the car for going to and returning from work I've never had a return of less than 32 MPG averaging something stupid, like 14 MPH. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
cheers guys £30 for a reprogrammed card sounds fairer!

re the gendarmes, i find 85mph is ok, 90 when you think its clear. Anything over 100 and they can take your car/licence! when the limit is 110kph then i dont go over 70mph, they're apparently hotter in the urban areas...

think if i got a call from the missus saying she got the dreaded black smoke i might stifle a *lol* :rofl:

do renault charge much for a reset?

cars I'm looking at all seem to have had the cam belt done. Is it safe to assume FSH means oil change every 9k or not?

Cheers!.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i think alot of manufacturer are doing these long intervals these days - does seem a particularly bad idea for diesels...
 

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I dunno if theres any still about now, but avoid any that you see with the old type right angle cast iron pipe going to the EGR valve. See attached files the old one is arrowed in blue, the new one is arrowed in red.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
does the cast iron one mean its likely all coked up? cheers for the tip, something to look out for in the engine bay!

Hows the aircon hold up on the lag? i had to change two pipes and the rad-like thing on pug306 hdi which meant 4 regasses. over £500 in all but they're notorious for it...
 

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does the cast iron one mean its likely all coked up? cheers for the tip, something to look out for in the engine bay!
Apparently the cast iron one's laminates on the inside, this means bits of metal flake off, which :censored: up the turbo big time.

Hows the aircon hold up on the lag? i had to change two pipes and the rad-like thing on pug306 hdi which meant 4 regasses. over £500 in all but they're notorious for it...
The aircon is like every other because we're all greedy, we always want more. I've had 2 guna's since 97, only ever had one re-gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #16

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Discussion Starter #17
The dreaded turbo self destruct...

... put it another way, how can you health check a car for this? Say I dose it with fully synthetic every 9k miles - fooked it'll be 18k! - check the EGR valve is clean; no smoke from the exhaust, smooth power and no wierd turbo noise - is that sufficient?

Or should you get a turbo boost check...?

Cheers!
 

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ppowell - I wouldn't be too concerned about the size difference between a sporttourer & a hatchback. The Tourer is about 2" or 3" longer than the hatch. Rear visibility is much better and the load area, whilst no bigger than the hatch is more practical. With the seats folded the tourer is flatter and bigger load space.

As far as the stereo is concerned, the Cabasse is pretty good ( very good in fact) for a standard factory fit unit. Probably one of the better std fit set ups on the market. Obviously you can improve on it by fitting an after market unit and speakers,amps,woofers etc etc etc.
But you would have to spend several hundred pounds to achieve tha improvement.
 

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Is a 2.2 any better than a 1.9 for this?
The 1.9 is the worst offender, but as Hondo has discoverd, the 2.2 is not without turbo problems. It all boils down to them using the wrong grade of oil and giving too long a service interval. As someone (SportTourer?) recently pointed out in another thread, Nissan have been using the same engines for years and have not had the same problems, but they do have a much shorter service interval.
Is there any way to "save" a turbo - is it wear and tear or sudden failure?
9K oil and filter changes, plus a quality full synthetic oil of the right grade should do the trick. If you want to be extra nice to it, then try not to rev it hard when cold, try to drive with a light foot for the last couple of minutes of the journey, and allow the engine to idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting down. Personally, I don't think any of the latter is necessary as long as you're using good quality oil, but mine's a repmobile and I don't pick up the tab if it goes foom. I might take a more paranoid attitude if I was going to have to pay for repairs.

If the turbo ever does fail, the engine will run unrestricted, burning its own lubricating oil and the revs will shoot through the roof. Provided you have a manual transmission, you should deliberately stall the engine at this point (the stop/start button won't work) and make no attempts to restart it. Quick thinking at this time can make the difference between needing a new turbo and intercooler, and needing a whole new engine.
Would a used warranty cover this sort of failure?.........
I suppose it depends on the warranty. Look into not just whether it covers the turbo, but whether it's likely to cover any consequential damage. A lot of warranties don't cover things like cracked/warped heads - if you do let the engine race and you end up stuffing the engine, you may find that it's not covered by a third party warranty.

One option might be to go for a model less than 3 years old and then take out the Renault Harmony warranty. It's not cheap (and is only available on cars still under the manufacturer's warranty) but it does supposedly provide an equivalent level of cover to the original 3 year warranty. By 2004-ish, they'd started using the correct grade of oil from the factory, though they didn't drop the service interval to 9 or 12K (depending on whether you have the particle filter) until 2005.
 

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The 1.9 is the worst offender, but as Hondo has discoverd, the 2.2 is not without turbo problems. It all boils down to them using the wrong grade of oil and giving too long a service interval. As someone (SportTourer?) recently pointed out in another thread, Nissan have been using the same engines for years and have not had the same problems, but they do have a much shorter service interval.
9K oil and filter changes, plus a quality full synthetic oil of the right grade should do the trick. If you want to be extra nice to it, then try not to rev it hard when cold, try to drive with a light foot for the last couple of minutes of the journey, and allow the engine to idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting down. Personally, I don't think any of the latter is necessary as long as you're using good quality oil, but mine's a repmobile and I don't pick up the tab if it goes foom. I might take a more paranoid attitude if I was going to have to pay for repairs.
Well spotted Dave. It was infact me who said that.

I agree with what you say about oil etc as well. Most journeys end with you driving down the road to your house slowly, stop put it in reverse etc etc so the turbo has had quite a while to settle anyway. Letting it idle for 30 secs would possibly only be necessary if you have just come off the motorway, but even then you slow down for slip lanes,exits,roundabouts etc before you eventually stop at the services or wherever.
 
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