Independent Renault Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

Started to strip down the K4J today, Got everything off except I'm struggling with an upper cam belt cover bolt. The clearance is non existant, Can anyone recommend a tool to remove this nut, Managed to get a socket on to show the lack of clearance...
Taken from above the engine looking down (Can just make out the socket in the middle of the pic):

(why Renault think they need to have 5 bolts holding on the cam belt cover, 2 bolts would have done, and they make all but one accessible)

Here is a couple of pics looking down the inlet ports, Notice the missing valve - wonder where thats ended up.


I'm hoping that I don't have to remove the lower cover to remove the top cover, I don't want to remove the crankshaft sprocket whilst the head is still on, this is where I'm up to so far:


Thanks in advance guys.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,291 Posts
Clearance can be tight but usually removing the top engine mount and supporting the engine on a jack and either raising or lowering the engine a tad it's do-able.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Clearance can be tight but usually removing the top engine mount and supporting the engine on a jack and either raising or lowering the engine a tad it's do-able.:)
Tried this techique but i'd have to move it right a bit to make any difference, rather than up or down.
The only think I can think of is getting a 16mm socket with grooves to accept a spanner, or maybe a very strange angled deep spanner.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Clearance can be tight but usually removing the top engine mount and supporting the engine on a jack and either raising or lowering the engine a tad it's do-able.:)

:iagree:

Get the engine as high as you can on the jack and I usually use a cranked 16 A/F mm ring spanner on that bolt until it's loose enough to remove with my fingers. Thereis at least another one further round the back which is even less accessible[FONT=&quot]![/FONT] :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Guys,
I'll give it a go tomorrow, I'm pretty sure i've got the one further back already.

Thanks again.

Can't wait to see where my missing valve has got to.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Assuming you where considering replacing the cam shaft seals? It would have been much easier to remove the cam shaft sprockets with the upper cylinder head still in place as the nuts are done up extremely tightly. And you won’t be able to hold them to undo them in a vice. Don’t use the timing slots in the ends of the cam shafts to hold the shafts either as they aren’t strong enough. You can buy a sprocket retaining tool or possibly make something yourself if you have the facilities?



I use a piece of bright drawn steel bar that has a reamed hole for a hardened dowel pin that slides into the holes in the pulleys.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Assuming you where considering replacing the cam shaft seals?
Thanks Recycled,
TBH I didn't even think about the seals, Have been too busy trying to get to the damage. I don't know the background of the car to know if the belt snapped at 70 or on startup etc. - So could be a new head/engine anway.

I'll see what the damage is then go with the way you did it.

Thanks again,
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I doubt you will undo them with head on the bench they really are F****g tight! even with the head in the car with a 2ft wrecking bar you still sometimes need to use a length of tube as well.

Unless you really heat the nuts up.

You also have to do them up really tight as well as there not keyed and neither is the crank shaft sprocket even though that does have a key way.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,945 Posts
Not sure if yours will be the same but when I did my Megane I took 1 bolt out with a socket and extension through the rubber grommet on inner wing where metal brake pipe comes through to wheel arch.
Can't remember which bolt but it made something easier.
I also had wheel arch liner out and the vertical black metal plate off the inner wing that restricts clearance as well so you may need these out to do it.
Still needed crank spanner for others.
***** of a job.
BTW. Is that 'over the top' cambelt cover not also part of the engine mounting set up and holding your engine in!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
803 Posts
Unbolt the mount from the body, jack the engine up and you'll get at it. I use a long reach ring spanner like this one
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Hiya,
I had the same trouble with my scenic 2.0ltr petrol 16v, There are some very helpful people on here but i managed to get to mine via the inner wing, have a look where the brake pipes come through in the wheel arch, I then used a long socket and managed to get on the bolt....not sure this will help you but it sorted me after mucking about for an hour trying to work out how to get socket on...lol..Tony..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
BTW. Is that 'over the top' cambelt cover not also part of the engine mounting set up and holding your engine in!
Sorry should have explained, I've removed the engine mount "engine side" and supporting on a trolley jack.

Thanks all, I will remove the rest of the mount from the body as suggested and get a cranked spanner on it, the black plate that Dave mentioned doesn't look removable on mine, though I will give it a try through the wing.

Thanks for all your help guys, Never got a response like this over on a VW forum when I had the Golf.

Hopefully will update with pics of the damage today :d
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Re: Damage

Hi again guys,

Managed to get a cranked spanner on that bolt so thanks all for your suggestion.

After removing the head its clear the engine is good for scrap, The valves on piston 4 are a mess and have damaged the head beyond repair, as you can see from the pics, the piston has a hole in it. It must have been doing high revs when the belt snapped for that damage to happen.






Anyway, I'm going to source an engine, I'm hoping that I can remove the engine from the gearbox with it still in the car and just swap the engine, Does anyone know if this is possible?

Also as I'm using the original ECU will I have any trouble with the immobiliser? or any other gotcha's that I could do with knowing.

Thanks for all your help so far with this.
 

Attachments

R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Kin hell mate! :eek: never seen one that bad before when the cam belts gone.

I have recently had a similar one with a Scenic though only one valve head got punched into the piston. What I did and IMO Its easier to lift engine and gearbox together as I don’t think there will sufficient room to pull them apart in place.

In any case it’s easier getting the gearbox back on to the engine out of the car.

You shouldn’t have any immobiliser problems if you retain the original ECU
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
40,429 Posts
Mmm,that made a nice mess.:d

Remove the front subframe and drop the engine/box assembly out of the bottom of the car,don't bother trying to split the engine and 'box in situ.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
999 Posts
Using rubber belts to drive OHCs was surely an engineering aberration. Mercedes had more sense and BMW had only a short flirtation. VW, Renault and Alfa have realised the error of their ways and are returning to chain drives. Chain drives are not trouble free although problems are often with the tensioning arrangements. My 2L Alfa 164 did 174k with the chain requiring tensioning only once.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I wonder if it was a mechanical failure in that cylinder caused the belt to snap? That’s what happened to a Scenic I have. One of the valve heads broke off and damage the piston and cylinder head. Though the timing belt didn’t break it must have jumped several teeth as all the other valves got bent.

I have repaired 3 of these 16 valve engines that have had cam belt / roller failure and the valve stems being so weak just get bent out of the way causing very little other damage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Many thanks guys, I will drop the engine out at the weekend, Back to work tomorrow :-(

Using rubber belts to drive OHCs was surely an engineering aberration. Mercedes had more sense and BMW had only a short flirtation. VW, Renault and Alfa have realised the error of their ways and are returning to chain drives. Chain drives are not trouble free although problems are often with the tensioning arrangements. My 2L Alfa 164 did 174k with the chain requiring tensioning only once.
Vauxhall used a chain on their 2.2, trouble is the oil jet nozzle that sprayed the chain got blocked and caused the chain to snap, they revised the part in the end which has a bigger nozzle, one to watch on early 2002-2005 2.2 Engines.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Vauxhall used a chain on their 2.2, trouble is the oil jet nozzle that sprayed the chain got blocked and caused the chain to snap, they revised the part in the end which has a bigger nozzle, one to watch on early 2002-2005 2.2 Engines.
Yep one of my brother inlaws has just scrapped his 52 plate 2.2 Vectra because the timing chain failed :( Nice car it was to just under 100,000 full leather interior.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top