Independent Renault Forums banner
61 - 80 of 80 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #61 ·
on the report i saved on the AP200, in states fuel flow correction , for each cylinder and the value?
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
Yep - corrections or compensation values.


Those individual values tell you how much the ECU needs to adjust from the already coded injector calibration values in order to make all the cylinders contribute the same power output per engine rotation in order to have a smooth running engine.

The basic idea:

The sum of all those 4 values will ALWAYS be 0 or very close to it .
Individual cylinder compensation values, on a mechanically sound engine, with good injectors and a properly performing control system, will be within a decimal place of 0 .......... typically +-0.5 still ok

Net result - when you start seeing gaga huge correction numbers (either positive or negative) ................... you are chasing your tail
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
If you still have the ECU and a running vehicle with you - I would swap the injectors in cylinders 1 and 3 until you can get the coding done properly - chances are ALL the compensation values will then be way better (big posiitive and big negative hopefully gets canceled to a large extent)
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
I read the live data and the flow rates are as follows inj1,-2.6 inj2, -1.4 inj3 5.1 inj 4 -1.0 If i research the coding online, there can be issues with the 1.9 and 2.0dci on coding but its a specific program that will allow inputing of codes.But im not getting any error codes anymore!!!!!!
No error codes simply mean the ECU is able to now produce a smooth running engine.

The ECU doesn't know immediately that you are screwing the pooch by effectively lying to it and not having the injectors coded in the ECU in the actual holes - it just assumes it must compensate for some mechanical deficiency in the engine bay at this stage.

Depending on the ECU and the firmware on it, the ECU may or may not monitor compensation values for tolerances - if it does, then it will generate codes again eventually once if figured you are lying to it. If it doesnt monitor, it will just keep quiet ...................and it then is up to the mechanic doing the job to fix the compensation values' being gaga cause - if he chooses not to then the engine will not perform satisfactorily in all aspects (it may be smooth but it will be thirsty and smoke and not last as long as it should)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Thank you for your reply and explanation, will wait for the re flashed ecu, (fingers Crossed), do not want to take it apart again, or risk damage.so will not use. Was offered a 1.9dci engined complete car. should have taken that route, 3k in now on this one, so need to use it , and see some return.
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
Thank you for your reply and explanation, will wait for the re flashed ecu, (fingers Crossed), do not want to take it apart again, or risk damage.so will not use. Was offered a 1.9dci engined complete car. should have taken that route, 3k in now on this one, so need to use it , and see some return.
I have my doubts about the proposed method of getting the injector codes in there and also about the explanation/motivation used, but lets see..................

I have been wrong about many things in my life - let's hope this is another one :unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #67 ·
UPDATE, Spoke to chap with the old /new ecu, the flash chip was corrupt, so new one ordered and installed. Accepted correct program for the van, then connected to 2nd pc to install injector codes, accepted and installed. Re connecedt to 1st pc/ to finish inputing immo codes and vin,shock horror injector codes lost ands shows AAAAAAA for all 4. He has put up query on a number of sites for ecu reprogramming. No replies, and he said that im not the only person with the same issues on this engine.He had seen the artical regards the company pushing the reprogramming programme for this issue ut cannot find anyone with it, and im not paying 1200 quid to code 4 injectors, So back to square one. Will swap injectors 1 and 3 over to try and get values down and fool the ecu . As it looks like im stuck with this issue will use the van and if it goes pop haho.
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
UPDATE, Spoke to chap with the old /new ecu, the flash chip was corrupt, so new one ordered and installed. Accepted correct program for the van, then connected to 2nd pc to install injector codes, accepted and installed. Re connecedt to 1st pc/ to finish inputing immo codes and vin,shock horror injector codes lost ands shows AAAAAAA for all 4. He has put up query on a number of sites for ecu reprogramming. No replies, and he said that im not the only person with the same issues on this engine.He had seen the artical regards the company pushing the reprogramming programme for this issue ut cannot find anyone with it, and im not paying 1200 quid to code 4 injectors, So back to square one. Will swap injectors 1 and 3 over to try and get values down and fool the ecu . As it looks like im stuck with this issue will use the van and if it goes pop haho.
Once you swapped the injectors, please post up the new set of compensation values as an indication/method of possibly addressing a similar situation on the same engine/ecu combination
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Having a meltdown on this one, trying to understand that as of now, if i plug the obd in and do a live data for the flow rate corrections they are the same as they were 3 months ago with the old ecu ,and faulty injector in cylinder 3. So if i take the engine apart to swap injector 1 with 3, is it going to make any difference on these values. Still have to same problem i had after rebuilding the top end and replacing the timing chain, difficult to start , when it does fire it sound like its running on 2 cylinder then it does eventually clear, and plumes of white smoke. Yes since the ecu swap it does rev up , and no longer shows any fault codes.But no way could i drive this on the road, unless it was part of a display for the red arrows.Hope to get hold of a pc with the full renault clip system next week , and try and get the injectors codes and do updates.Still not holding out any hope, would love to be wrong.
 

·
Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
Joined
·
37,575 Posts
Can I ask, ARE you sure cam to crank timing is correct,
you know injectors are working, you know swapping makes no difference, so its NOT them
You are not burning oil so its not that
It seems as though crank is not in correct position to cam, so you are getting white smoke
( Isuzi used to have this when crank sprocket key way was worn
You would fit a cam belt, but crank would be slightly out too far forward , and the amount of smoke it would produce. you could not see behind you )


Do you have a PDF of the timing chain Fitting instructions
 

·
Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
Joined
·
37,575 Posts
I would be checking myself now,
Would be locking crank, and getting at cam, and see if cam is slightly too far back
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
Having a meltdown on this one, trying to understand that as of now, if i plug the obd in and do a live data for the flow rate corrections they are the same as they were 3 months ago with the old ecu ,and faulty injector in cylinder 3. So if i take the engine apart to swap injector 1 with 3, is it going to make any difference on these values. Still have to same problem i had after rebuilding the top end and replacing the timing chain, difficult to start , when it does fire it sound like its running on 2 cylinder then it does eventually clear, and plumes of white smoke. Yes since the ecu swap it does rev up , and no longer shows any fault codes.But no way could i drive this on the road, unless it was part of a display for the red arrows.Hope to get hold of a pc with the full renault clip system next week , and try and get the injectors codes and do updates.Still not holding out any hope, would love to be wrong.
1. The flow rate corrections you now see - the values are noted AFTER the engine ran yes?
2. If #1 is yes, then you are on your own ................ absolutely no way a replaced injector can have a positive experience for you yet cause the ECU (also 2 different ones?) to still see the same gaga corrections - it's simply not possible.

Its real simple:

If the ECU is working as intended (correct firmware for this engine) and the engine is mechanically sound, any physical swapping of injector locations MUST cause a change in correction values - no ifs or buts.

I would be checking myself now,
Would be locking crank, and getting at cam, and see if cam is slightly too far back
There is obviously something amiss here that either you do not know of, was not told about, or chose to not disclose - as @ours2012 said this is a good example of where a rigid and methodical approach is required by a single responsible party reporting on facts only.

As @ours2012 hinted - until you know for sure the mechanicals of the thing is guaranteed 100% ANY faultfinding at this stage is a waste of time - I like to take the easy route hence why I queried the correction values - they are always a sure way of identifying a funky setup (either electronics or mechanics).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #74 ·
think you mis understood . my question is before i start swapping over injectors, how can the correction values be the same, for two different ecu's. The old ecu had all four injectors coded as AAAAAAA, values as follow:
1, -2.2
2.-1.9
3, 5.1
4,-1.0
As of this morning. with replacement ecu , with injectors coded but not the ones currently in the engine, and cylinder three injector replaced from the original test above, the flow rates are the same for each cylinder,. How can that be? The current ecu came from a same year van, just has the immo deactivated. I assisted the mechanic do the top end rebuild and fitting of timing chain, he is maticulous in his work , had the correct locking kit and checked it twice before putting back together.
Im hiding nothing, do not profess to be a mechanic, but still managed to diagnose the original fault when 3 other so called mechanics and a renault main stealer failed. I will not be beaten and will get to the bottom of this
 

·
Super fantastic Mod Technical Supremo Nice Guy
Joined
·
37,575 Posts
OR Buy a Kess, take ecu out, put it on the bench, and code them in..

But let me put it another way.


You have had two ecu's, both working IRRELEVANT of flow/pulse factors and still have the smoke
Would be looking somewhere else


What happens when you disconnect the Turbo to intercooler pipe work



Not knocking your methods, What I am trying to get over to you, think outside of ECU and injectors being at fault
BOTH are not going to give you same fault
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
think you mis understood . my question is before i start swapping over injectors, how can the correction values be the same, for two different ecu's. The old ecu had all four injectors coded as AAAAAAA, values as follow:
1, -2.2
2.-1.9
3, 5.1
4,-1.0
................... and I think you are missing the point that both @ours2012 and myself have been stressing all along that there ARE some engine+ECU combinations that do NOT require injectors to be coded - you may indeed have one of those in your vehicle and specific model (we don't know and cannot from model number alone figure what is supposed to be in your vehicle).

If that is the case, that compensation values that are near identical between 2 different ECUs but the same injectors after the engine actually ran on the ECU and injectors, is actually telling you (while being 100% correct) that you STILL have a mechanical problem as also confirmed by your smoking thing - IF THE ECU'S CONTENTS THAT WAS FORCED IS SOUND

You need to understand both the mechanicals AND the coding and compensation methods possible (the facts) ........................ and more importantly remove unknowns from the equation (the people saying they did whatever using whatever method of force and blaming all sorts of electronic failures for their inability to sort this issue).

We cannot be more methodical other than to re-iterate the thinking on proper fault-finding ................................... we do not have the animal to look at and experience what you are seeing and we just do not have access to simple tables containing firmware/ECU/vehicle model number references produced over the years with indications of which of those combinations do NOT require injectors to be coded
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Today i got back the old ecu, new flash program installed , fitted to van, starts easy, but status quo, will not rev above 2500 revs, no smoke, and will not recode injectors. Renault can clip will not talk to it, Autel system gets a little further but still will not recode injectors and shock horror, the flow correctiom rates are the same on live data , but no smoke, im totally lost . No one has an answer to this issue. Tried 2 renault main dealers, an ecu special;ist. Not a clue, how to proceeed. Proves its not mechanical , electrical problem Codes showing P0611, all injector codes AAAAAAA ????????????????????????????????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Sorry i need to correct my self. on the ecu that has been re installed, that was the one fitted after top end rebuild and chain kit,( it did not smoke) , it just had the same flow values even after changing injector 3 due to code mis fire flagging up. As i have got so confused on whats been done, changed and so on, i have written down a time line. So to confirm after rebuild van started up fine with no smoke, codes showin P0611, and would not recode injectors.
 

·
Technical Supremo.
Scenic II, 2004, K4MW761, DPO
Joined
·
6,693 Posts
To be honest, no friggin idea what is and is not in the vehicle and really don't feel like decoding 4 pages of what is and what is not in the vehicle at all ...................

I am not surprised that nobody can make heads or tales of this all.
 
61 - 80 of 80 Posts
Top