[victorludorum]

This is great, cheers all ;-)

 

[victorludorum]

I have a Haynes manual, and it talks about this 60 degree temperature. There doesn't seem to be any way of doing this without being a bit hit-and-miss. Is this temperature really crucial?

 

[victorludorum]

I'm happy to try a few tests, topping up each time until I get it right. If it's too tricky I'll throw in the towel and hand it to Renault, but I've done harder stuff than this, so it should be ok... Cheers!

 

[victorludorum]

Cheers ;-)

 

[victorludorum]

I've jacked the car up to see how things are laid out, and the drain plug seems to be different from the one pictured in the Haynes manual. Rather than being an 8mm square drive that is external, mine seems to be recessed, like the engine oil drain plug. I can't see any hex head there at all either. There was no 'engine undertray' either, unless I'm missing something.

Is this normal or am I looking at the wrong thing?

 

[victorludorum]

I presume it's the same principle, and there is a second recessed bolt inside the first one. I loosened it a tiny bit and the oil that's in there is black, so it definitely needs changing.

 

[victorludorum]

Ok, I finally got round to tackling this and here's what's happened:
1. I removed the outer drain plug - which does have a recessed square drive unlike the Haynes picture - and drained the oil. The car was jacked up for this on one side and the engine was not running.
2. I then removed the inner drain plug and in total about 3 litres of oil came out. The oil was still red, but much darker than the new stuff.
3. I put 3.5 litres of new stuff in, which was tricky as there was some sort of damper (a blue and red thing) that was blocking the filler plug slightly.
4. I took the car out for a 10 min drive, not really getting much above 40 at any stage. When i got back I stupidly switched off the engine and removed the drain plug before realising very quickly that the engine needed to be running - hardly any oil had come out. I started the engine and then drained the oil which was only measuring about 40 degrees outside the box. Just over 1 litre came out! The car was flat and not jacked up. To me, the amount of oil that came seemed excessive as they only talk about 'more than 0.1 litres' in the Haynes manual, so I concluded to put the oil back in and run round the block again for a few minutes and do the procedure again.
5. I put the oil that I had drained back in and went around the block for a few minutes and started the procedure again, this time without cutting the engine at all. Once again about 1.2 litres came out, which seems like a lot to me. This time the oil was measuring just under 70 degrees.

Am I being foolish here in thinking that 1.2 lites is far too much, bearing in mind that I drained 3 litres and put back in 3.5? The oil has never been touched since the factory. If anything I would expect the level to be too low, and the 3 litres I took out would suggest that this was the case, but as I say, the car was jacked up on one side and the oil was cold, so that may have played a part.

Any input here would be really appreciated, cheers

 

[victorludorum]

I think the fact that I didn't warm it up before doing the initial drain may be playing a part. I'm going to run through the whole procedure again and see how things look. Thankfully I don't need to use the car so i can take my time.
Thanks again for the help @Dancingdad

 

[victorludorum]

Ok, so I've just done it again and pretty much had the same result:
1. Ran car around the block, then drained the oil completely while car was on the flat. Just under 2.5 litres came out, which suggests my measurements last time were correct.
2. Put about 3.3/3.4 litres of new stuff in, then took the car out again round the block.
3. Removed the outer drain plug and drained while the car was still running on a flat surface and about 1 litre came out.
I think I'm going to leave the car overnight and then give it a run tomorrow to see how it goes, and to see whether I'm still getting the gear slippage and 'check gearbox' problem.
I can't believe that the level should be as low as 2.5 litres, but having had the same result 2 times I'm at a bit of a loss what to do now.

 

[victorludorum]

I've just found another useful French forum post where they guy says he had to run the car for a good 30 mins to get it up to temp. In saying that, the first time I did the procedure the oil measured 70 degrees (with a thermometer), and that was a trip that took about 15 mins.

It does seem to rely on getting the temp correct, so i think I will have to invest in something that can measure it more accurately, and the software seems like a sensible option.

In terms of the slippage problem, I used that term as the car jumps out of 3rd into 2nd and the 'Check Gearbox' warning comes up. When this originally started happening it was only when the car was cold, and switching it off and back on solved the problem. Now however, it's becoming much more frequent and is happening at higher speeds, so dropping out of 4th into 3rd at 60/70 mph. Since it started doing that i have limited the car to short runs where I won't go over 50 as I don't want to cripple the box, bearing in mind that the car has only done 30,000 miles.

Thanks for the detailed reply @LvR , I appreciate it ;-)

 

[victorludorum]

I think the solenoid probably does need replacing, but a good many posts on this well-known problem all say that changing the oil is the first step, as sometimes this fixes the problem. I've also read a fair few posts where people have paid to have the solenoids changed, only for the problem to come back within the year. Having spoken to a Renault dealer here in France who informed me that he doesn't touch auto boxes, and that (as far as he is aware) there is only one Renault dealer (out of about 15 in total) locally that has a qualified mechanic, I'm pretty sure I'll be doing this job myself. The car is 13 years old now, but has only done 30,000 miles; when i got it in the UK it was worth bugger all, so I'm not going to worry too much if it does die, but i'm determined to keep it going and am pretty confident that i can sort it.

 

[victorludorum]

Cheers for confirming that it's not that bad to do

 

[victorludorum]

Here's the latest - I bought a diagnostic tool called MaxiECU (from an Amazon seller who is not an 'authorised' MaxiECU dealer), but sadly it wouldn't connect to my car for more than a couple of seconds. I returned it, but I have been assured by another seller (who is authorised) that the unit will work with my car, and that some of the early units were faulty. I'm tempted to try again with this seller, who seems more professional than the first one, who gave no support at all. I figure that I have 14 days to try, and if it fails again I'll just return it). The one thing that still worries me is that I don't think this software can flash the machine after a solenoid. If I were to replace the old solenoids with direct replacements (i.e. the old style 50hz ones), would the gearbox eventually adjust the software itself, as it does with an oil change? Am I better off going with another diagnostic tool that will cover all the bases? Does this even exist, or is it only the official Renault toy that will do this?

 

[victorludorum]

A big thanks again to all who've chipped in, i really appreciate it I'm learning more and more, but becoming more and more resigned to the fact that i might be snookered on this fix. Does anyone know the part number for the older 50hz solenoids please? All the models I see for sale are the black bodied ones, whereas i think the older ones are brown/orange.

 

[victorludorum]

I guess I wanted to try it as it doesn't seem too difficult to do from an engineering point of view. The main problem seems to be the software issue. Another reason is that i went to see my local Renault dealer (I'm in France) and he said he doesn't have a mechanic who knows about autos!! I'm sure there's another one locally that will, but his attitude was simply, 'I don't touch autos, we just replace them when there's a problem'. I'm where I am because I tried changing the oil, but clearly the 60 degree thing is much more crucial than I expected, so i bought the MaxiEcu to solve that issue, in the hope that it could do much more too, but this gearbox firmware seems to be a Renault only thing. I'm going to start actively looking for an independent who has the right software. My current position is that i need to get the oil level right before I can move on.

 

[victorludorum]

So... after another farcical visit to another Renault dealer here in France, i have 2 fault codes: DF131 and DF226, which i think confirm that the solenoids are shot.

This particular dealer was only charging 59 euros for a diagnostic, and after explaining what i thought was the problem to him, he said if it's the solenoids he could do it. Anyway, he phoned yesterday to say that it's not the solenoids and that it's an internal problem which he can't fix, as Renault don't work on autos, which are sealed for life (even though they're still quite happy to sell their awful auto gearboxes!!). I went back today to collect the car and to get an explanation of the problem and he said 'it's something to do with gear slippage and pressure. It's an internal problem, so I can't touch it; I can only replace the box'. I then said to him that that sounds a lot like the solenoid issue, and that the valve block is external, but he was clueless, so I just asked him for the diagnostic readout, which he didn't have, although he did give me the 2 codes on a post-it note and didn't charge me, which is a good thing as I didn't want to start an argument over it. This the second Renault dealer that has been next-to-useless, so I won't be going to another for a third chapter of this farce. At least I have the codes, and i think that that is enough to convince me to buy a Clip and do it myself.

 

[victorludorum]

I plan to get a Clip so that i can do the job when the weather gets a bit better. I don't need the car, so it can sit for a while. I may take it out for a short, undemanding run as it was driving better when I took it to the garage, just to see if the oil change has made a difference (even though the chances are very slim).

"hang an analogue pressure gauge off the appropriate port and FIRST confirm pressures reported by the TCU" @LvR Where are these ports?

 

[victorludorum]

Ok, here's the latest. I got a Clip from a seller here in France who has been great in supporting me with the setup, as it was very tricky indeed (and I consider myself pretty ok with computers). When i hooked it up and selected DP0 as the gearbox type it couldn't detect the gearbox, as well as a few other things like the injectors etc. I emailed the guy, who was very perplexed, but then on another try over the weekend i thought I'd select JH3 as the gearbox type, and bingo, it picked everything up and even said 'DPO tla2000 AUTO GEARBOX' on the top left of the screen!!?? It was picking up the temp, so i went ahead and did a level check. At 60 degrees I undid the outer drain plug (with the engine running on flat ground) and once again, about 0.5L came out, just as it did when I tried my hit and miss approach. By the time the oil had stopped draining (but continued dripping), the temp was at 63. I redid the plug and took it out and it ran really well with no slips. Obviously the car was already hot, so i plan to take it into work tomorrow and test it from a cold start. I'll do a further update later this week.

 

[victorludorum]

I took it for a drive and once again the 'check gearbox' warning happened, which isn't surprising. The car was driving much better, but the problem's still there. The Clip picked up fault DF226, but that was all. The problem I'm having now is that the Clip seems very unreliable. It lost connection and was then unable to re-connect, either with JH3 selected, or DP0. The message I got was 'global multiplex problem', or something like that, so it seems that this clone is not the most reliable. I'll be doing a test tomorrow with the guy who sold it to me, so maybe he can fix it, but those 2 issues (only working when JH3 selected, and the global multiplex problem) don't inspire me with much confidence. i can feel an argument coming on about sending a replacement...