Whenever I read that 4 injectors have failed at the same time, I get this nasty feeling that the main fuel pump is breaking up and has flooded the system with metallic fines...which clogs injectors.
Then new ones fail shortly after fitting unless the whole fuel system from tank to injectors has been cleaned or replaced.

But although elements seem to match, the long delay in symptoms coming back does not bear this theory out.
But to remove thoughts of this and possibly point to an alternative, take a sample of fuel from the filter.
Store it in a clean jar, leave it overnight to settle.... see if any gunk settles at the bottom and if it does whether a strong magnet held to the jar can move it.
Hopefully nothing or if there is gunk, it is not iron, which would remove the pump from being the issue.
If there is gunk (but not iron) it may point to fuel problems which can give similar injector issues.

 

Thanks Dancingdad for your input,

Before replacing the injectors they checked the whole fuel system including the filter and the pump and all was ok, (they wouldnt give me a warranty for the injectors if something was wrong with any part of the system)I will have the filter replaced next week, and definitely check the fuel from it. I pay close attention to tank up only premium fuel and on trusted gas stations. Ill for sure get back with the news.
In case the fuel will be fine any other ides?

 

Are we sure it is injector noise and not something else? Can you hear it at idle? If so, using a long metal rod/bar with one end pressed against your ear, go around the engine bay touching the other end against the suspect components. Cylinder head; crankcase; especially around the belt/tensioner components (BE CAREFUL HERE). See if you can narrow down where it is coming from. If you are replacing the fuel filter, others on this forum will strongly advise you stick to a genuine part. Your other problems sound like a fuel issue.

 

In the beginning, the noise was present only in first gear and reverse while starting to drive the car, while the engine was under the load. The noise is not present on idle and even If I am reving it up while in neutral there is no noise.

 

Given everything in the description of the experience, I am going to guess/bet the injectors have absolutely nothing to do with the problem .......................

............... and imo any "issue" with "injectors" (or indeed any other instrumented parameter like the mentioned throttle) will undoubtedly be picked up by a CLIP or a proper Renault speaking scanner and a semi-intelligent/competent person looking at engine parameter logs for a typical trip where the "problem" is experience/heard/demonstrated.

There are situation where the noise is not present and that is when I would drive the car for the longer distance without turning the car off, also the same was when I would drive the car and the AC would be turned on the noise was not there any more.

This behaviour makes me wonder about the sprag clutch (freewheeling) on the alternator

 

Given everything in the description of the experience, I am going to guess/bet the injectors have absolutely nothing to do with the problem .......................

............... and imo any "issue" with "injectors" (or indeed any other instrumented parameter like the mentioned throttle) will undoubtedly be picked up by a CLIP or a proper Renault speaking scanner and a semi-intelligent/competent person looking at engine parameter logs for a typical trip where the "problem" is experience/heard/demonstrated.

The car was put on the Renault diagnostic before when the noise started and three months down the line and they said that nothing is wrong with the injectors but that the noise coming from it sounds like an injector.

This behaviour makes me wonder about the sprag clutch (freewheeling) on the alternator

You mentioned sprag clutch, when i start the car, when it idles, and also while i rev the engine when in neutral there is no noise. engine works just fine.

 

What i noticed today when i had a lack of power while pressing the gas and the engine was a bit shaky is that when i stopped on the stoplight the engine was idling on 900 instead on the usual 850. I continued driving and no more problem with taking on gas and shaky engine and the next stoplight the engine idles on 850.

 

I really think you need the help of a CLIP or a proper Renault speaking scanner .....................

Subjective noises and experiences are going to be virtually impossible to sort without the ability to properly quantify the properties of it ito something the ECU can understand.

50rpm idle speed fluctuation could be normal depending on what the ECU is trying to do or compensate for

 

If the "noise" is easily repeatable/reproducible can you not record it happening and post the video here?

For S+giggles - post a video of your engine starting when ice cold and when it is at normal operating temperature - do not touch the throttle - in each case allow the engine to idle for about a minute.

On a diesel ..................... if you suspect injector issues, then its as simple as inspecting injector compensation values and the behaviour of the fuel pressure ............ over-fueling due to leaky/funky injectors can and will produce your symptoms, however as I said before when I responded to in particular

also the same was when I would drive the car and the AC would be turned on the noise was not there any more.

The injectors know nothing and don't care about the AC (also the other way round) and I, therefore, fail to see how that association can be made despite your reported experience....................

Can you confirm you simply will NEVER have the "problems" as long as you keep the AC permanently on?

If you want to get to the bottom this now after the guarantee expired then IMO you will have to tackle the issue by describing the "perceived" problem in terms of ECU controllable parameters with a CLIP

 

If the "noise" is easily repeatable/reproducible can you not record it happening and post the video here?

For S+giggles - post a video of your engine starting when ice cold and when it is at normal operating temperature - do not touch the throttle - in each case allow the engine to idle for about a minute.

On a diesel ..................... if you suspect injector issues, then its as simple as inspecting injector compensation values and the behaviour of the fuel pressure ............ over-fueling due to leaky/funky injectors can and will produce your symptoms, however as I said before when I responded to in particular

The injectors know nothing and don't care about the AC (also the other way round) and I, therefore, fail to see how that association can be made despite your reported experience....................

Can you confirm you simply will NEVER have the "problems" as long as you keep the AC permanently on?

If you want to get to the bottom this now after the guarantee expired then IMO you will have to tackle the issue by describing the "perceived" problem in terms of ECU controllable parameters with a CLIP

I'll record it tomorrow, the cold and warm start up just like you mentioned after about 1min idling. I'll also record it while driving and as far as the AC, I noticed from the cabine that there was no noise but I haven't been driving the AC always on.

 

Yeah, I understood that. I recorded know while driving but on the recording you can not hear it unless you know what you are looking for. My son will record tomorrow it from the outside when ill be reversing and also driving off in first gear, the noise should be more evident.

 

Hi guys. The videos were too big for uploading here so I am including the links. The cold startup, it started acting up at arround 1min from the start and it settled down arround 5min in.

Warm engine startup:

I have tried to upload 3 mp3 files of the noise while driving but the site doesn't accept that extension. Do you guys know which file format does it take?
I have also included a link to one YouTube video where the car had the same noise as mine. You can hear the most clearly from 1:02min. Thank you a lot for your patience with me. One question, before I go for the fuel filter change next week I was thinking to put the OBD2 scanner plug in and record during driving. I am using car scanner app, which parameters should I pay attention to? Many thanks.

 

This is exactly why I asked for actual video so one can try and experience what you hear and cut the subjectivity...........

Perhaps one of the Renault specific diesel gurus can also chime in .................. FWIW this is my opinion:

I highly doubt you are actually "hearing injectors" ........................ the cold start has IMO a slight "tappety" sound to it that is not present in the warm startup (possibly normal with hydraulic lifters and perhaps non-optimum oil but who knows) - I can hear absolutely nothing that will make me rip into injectors specifically in either of those 2 videos. What I do see in the cold start video is the appearance of a possible engine temperature related issue - read EGR mechanically not sound/dirty/stuck or coolant temp sensor funky or MAF/Map issue or fuel pump modulation funky ..............

Re the Nissan video (and by deduction what you experience sometimes) - I would go for the EGR without any further evidence or history................ what you hear on the Nissan video is imo possibly lugging/knocking caused by improper mixture control (?).

If you intend logging (and IMO you do) you really need a Renault speaking scanner that can access ALL the engine parameters at the same time and log them to a file for extended periods - I am willing to bet your car scanner app will not have access to any non-EOBD parameters .................. stuff like injector compensation values etc etc etc .....

Without a simultaneous log of ALL the engine control parameters, you are going to be tearing your hair out and possibly spending tons of beer money on the wrong stuff.

MP3 files will have to be archived and attached I think

 

There is of course also the question of a DMF presence (dual mass flywheel) ................... you 100% sure its not perhaps a worn DMF you experiencing

 

I am obviously not so versed in this as you, hence I am asking for further explenation if possible. You mention EGR, MAF and then DMF. I am familiar with EGR and the problems with. But what is MAF and DMF, what other symptoms could any of those to have so I can c if am experiencing any?
Also wouldn't EGR bring some fault codes and the dash? Do issues with MAF and DMF bring any fault codes on the dash?
The second time I went to the Renault dealer for a check up they ended up putting it on the computer to check the injectors but they also did the complete scan of the systems and all was ok. True then I didn't experiance this lack of power and car stalling on the first start.

 

Yeah they sound a bit rattley but not much different from my two 1.5s (Scenic, now Captur). These are not the quietest diesels, hence my original comment. If it was one of my cars from the last millenium I would say adjust the valve clearances but we don't do that anymore. I'm with LvR and maybe one of those (EGR/MAF) might also be the cause of your other problems. If you really want to track it down without a proper OBD tool the stethoscope / metal bar is still worth a try.

Having said all that, I go for my hearing test this Friday.

 

Thanks guys for the quick reply. I mentioned before the noise is not there when the engine is idling or if I rev it while in neutral. It appears while you shift in the first and start driving, reverse and all the way up to third gear. But like i mentioned it is the same as the Nissan on the video.That is why I wanted to upload the audio files of the noise while driving. But it says it is not the file doesn't have an allowed extension. I tried with mp3,m4a and was files and nothing works.
I used a regular attachment icon on the bottom. Is there anyother way of uploading it?
I might end up at the mechanic on Friday, would the EGR or MAF issue be visible on Clip? Also if those would be an issue wouldn't there be any warning light popping on on the dashboard?

 

Thanks guys for the quick reply. I mentioned before the noise is not there when the engine is idling or if I rev it while in neutral. It appears while you shift in the first and start driving, reverse and all the way up to third gear. But like i mentioned it is the same as the Nissan on the video.That is why I wanted to upload the audio files of the noise while driving. But it says it is not the file doesn't have an allowed extension. I tried with mp3,m4a and was files and nothing works.
I used a regular attachment icon on the bottom. Is there anyother way of uploading it?
I might end up at the mechanic on Friday, would the EGR or MAF issue be visible on Clip? Also if those would be an issue wouldn't there be any warning light popping on on the dashboard?

Sorry was off sorting power issues here so only get back here now.

Word of caution re CLIP and expectations of the info it supplies:

Clip or any other Renault speaking scanner will not necessarily indicate/identify a "problem" by telling you about it using words to understand - CLIP et-al is basically ONLY following the logic the Renault engineers programmed into the ECU to generate complaints. Example - if a specific parameters value currently measured on the engine falls within the expected allowable RANGE of values it will not complain. Complaints can be generated when eg the value of a parameter falls within the expected range BUT the current value of another parameter at the same time is such that the ECU is made to believe the 2 values in combination is not a possible state .................. and its here the problem with the scanners/CLIP lies - not every conceivable suspect state/combination is programmed into the ECU so it's not possible to necessarily generate a warning for EVERY operational state on the engine - THIS is the most important thing to get your head around - there may be something "wrong" and its possible CLIP will not or can not tell you anything about it.

This is where a logical and trained technician that understands all intricate parameter value interactions get to shine - he needs to look at the logged data values of all the engine parameters at the time of the engine's supposed misbehaviour and see what are suspect parameter value combinations....................... hence my suggestion to get a proper Renault speaking scanner and log ALL engine parameters for a typical trip where you experience your issues

You can be sure of this though - throughout development time the engineers have made sure engine destroying parameter value combinations got built into the ECU and warnings will be generated for those - both on the dash of the vehicle AND in CLIP .................. so if there are no warnings on either the dash or CLIP chances are the issue you experience may be a drivability issue to be traced and addressed by the mentioned technician - more often than not its here that brands/engines get a bad reputation because of incompetent/clueless humans.

Sorry - any component like the AGR/MAF/DMF/whatever is well documented and a search on the forum and the NET using those terms will explain the basic operation of those - the more intricate details require volumes of text and I just don't have the time to detail it all on a forum like this - most of these items are too complicated to point a finger at by JUST looking at the vehicle with CLIP and not seeing any complaints - you need intelligent and competent human intervention from somebody that understands this particular post's implications and that will not approach the issue from a dealer's standpoint only

Your links still aren't working btw

 

What I do see in the cold start video is the appearance of a possible engine temperature related issue - read EGR mechanically not sound/dirty/stuck or coolant temp sensor funky or MAF/Map issue or fuel pump modulation
[/QUOTE]
By that you mean when it sounded like the engine is going to stall?
Could that be fuel filter?
Could fuel filter also be related with sometimes car being jerky and seems like it is loosing power during driving?
These things you mentioned above would Clip recognize it only on the cold start, while the engine is acting up?

 

Finally I figured out how to post the audio files. Pls take listen this is during driving

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The Nissan noise, is there any physical vibration inside the car through the pedals or gearbox? Does it happen while the clutch is being released?

 

No, there is absolutely no vibration i could feel inside on the pedals, also no slipping clutch, I would feel it. I have posted audios now, hope it works this time. If I get an appointment with the mechanic tomorrow ill have him check the EGR(since I noticed that after a cold start up some 3min into driving there is a fuel smell coming into the cabine) and do the diagnosis.
One thing I did notice, if I start driving off with the bit more gas the i can't hear the noise. It is more evident when I have a soft start up, you know not pressing to much gas. I hope I have explained it good.

 

LvR, thanks for the explanation and patience. I just got to excited with all the info.
I'll take some time today and do some digging arround.
Here is another chance for the audio files. Hope it works. Please use the head phones for it will be easier to hear.

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LvR, thanks for the explanation and patience. I just got to excited with all the info.
I'll take some time today and do some digging arround.
Here is another chance for the audio files. Hope it works. Please use the head phones for it will be easier to hear.

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You are really taking things slow with those 3 clips, and what I only think I can hear is basically DMF noise ............... I would start there

 

If you really drive it like you stole it and take off with lots of power is the noise better/gone?

 

😁😁😁 ur right, I am no Ken Block. It take it slow. But u are right if I add more gass I can't hear the noise

 

Thanks again, will mention that to the mechanic when I go. What about loss of power while driving? Could that affect that too?

 

No that's a different issue and engine-related - need a scanner

 

Ok. Well I might end up with the mechanic tomorrow. If I do ill keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the help.

 

try a Google search on "dual mass flywheel failure symptoms" and check out some of the videos. See if anything seems familiar.

We are all guessing here.

 

try a Google search on "dual mass flywheel failure symptoms" and check out some of the videos. See if anything seems familiar.

We are all guessing here.

Thanks. Will do. If I end with the mechanic tomorrow ill keep you posted.

 

I've got the same issue. I can confirm for me at least, glow plug was down and the EGR. I don't just mean the top EGR valve. I mean the bottom one too, which is also connected to the cooler. My 1.5 dci 90 is currently with Renault having the work done under warranty. Although my car is out of warranty. Had to argue with Renault to get them to cover me.

The sound your experiencing could be down to a pot or 2 not heating up quick enough from a cold start. This is due to the glow plugs. Sometimes the faults won't show on any Renault speaking device. But after doing some testing via Tourqe Pro (best I could do). Both my EGR bank 1 was at fault and one of my glow plugs.

Best of luck solving your problem.

 

Sometimes the faults won't show on any Renault speaking device. But after doing some testing via Tourqe Pro (best I could do). Both my EGR bank 1 was at fault and one of my glow plugs.

I disagree - Glad you sorted yourself via Torque Pro but I am willing to bet both CLIP and any other proper Renault speaking scanner will give you the exact same ability to identify the EGR and glowplug too ................ because the ability to identify those is actually built into the ECU and its not a function of (especially the plain EOBD enabled only) Torque Pro

 

NO SCANNER can do that
A scanner can only read a fault code stored in memory
It cannot read a code that is not stored ( kept alive memory )
As a lot of sensors on ALL cars are only live when the ignition is kept on.
Even cycling the ignition, the fault codes will go
Hence, always have the scanner connected when trying to find a fault thats there one minute and gone the next

 

Don't faults also lit up on dashboard, or only the permanent ones? If the intermittent fault happens would OBD2 scanner plugged in during drive pick them up? I'm asking since the jerky engine and power loss happens during driving and I was thinking of having the OBD 2 plugged in i just don't know which paramenter to oversee.

 

OK - What I then don't get is that if you are taking it to this guy and paying for the guy to fix it, and you are also willing to pay for his time to drive with you, why are you in this situation?

Is it a question he is plain incompetent ?......................

 

LrV, I get what you r trying to say.
Long story short, for almost year and half going to different mechanics, official Renault dealers and other ones dealing with Renault cars, looking for someone that could help, this guy was the last one in line.
Anyways, i showed him the video and described what is happening while driving he said he would start with the fuel filter.
Since the car has now 160k we also changed the timing belt, all the tensioners and water pump.

He said that if the problem continues with the jerky drive to come back and he would plug in the computer and go for the ride with me to get the parameters and c what is to be done.
After he was done I drove the car for some 50km and no issue with the jerky engine. I know it might be a short ride but I didn’t have much time today. What also happened, to my big surprise, the knocking noise from the audio files I posted was also gone.
How and why I have no clue, cause of the filter or timing belt? Beats me.
Well I do have one suspicion, but I don’t know if I am right. When all this happened with the injectors and the sound coming back, I was totally upset I forked so much money for it and the noise is still back that I didn’t change the fuel filter. I changed it first at 60k and now at 160k driving with it. So 100k kilometers driving with the same filter.
The mechanic told me he recommends to change it every 40k. When the problem with noise appeared the car had cca 110k, so I was already 10k over with the change of the filter, could this have cause the noise issue?

Anyways, I want to deeply thank everybody for their time and willingnes to help me.
I hope there will not be any further issues on this front or any other concerning the car.