Not something I've come across except with low fuel.

How steep were the hills ?

 

When this happens, do you hear the fuel pump whine?

 

Don't hear anything untoward except the engine turning over but not firing, where I guess my current method of cutting the ignition and trying again for it to start could be something to do with the fuel pump - and or the spinning of the engine without firing acting as a pump in itself to draw fuel through.

Are there any non return valves in the fuel lines ?

And slopes I have parked on to experience te problem have been steep slopes and in terms of degrees, perhaps 25 to 30 degrees.

But no problems with driving up steep hills.

 

It's a known issue on vehicles with saddle tanks when indicated fuel is 1/4 or less and the transfer plumbing has packed up. Senders agree fuel is there but pump can't get at it. Short of going in the fix is to keep more fuel in the tank.
A more elaborate fix is put the car up and down the recovery truck. That generally sloshes enough over the hump.

 

Parking uphill or downhill ?

 

Downhill.

Always downhill as I generally don't like parking facing up hill, although, one day it could occur.

So fuel running back into the tank perhaps unlikely as with parked down hill, the tank is raised towards the level of the engne.

I feel something is amiss as my old mk1 Clio with a less developed form of the same engine never had this problem.

 

No, not untoward. Every Petrol Renault, I've had, especially those with Keys, rather than Keycards, turning ign on, the fuel pump cracks up for a few seconds, until pressure is built.
Does this happen every time, especially on a gradient?
Stand outside car, key on, do you hear a whirring noise for a few seconds?

 

Modern petrol burners have the pump in the tank, no return valves or really anything in the way until the injectors.
Engine can crank as much as it likes but has no effect on fuel.
Old style with mechanical fuel pump yes, leaky diaphragm or pipes and they could crank for ever then fire once fuel dragged through.

I still think fuel in tank BTW, would need to look at a cross section and where the pump is in relation to fluid.
Piccie below gives an idea of modern tank/pump design.
Pump sits in a baffled area, either built into tank or as part of the pump. This keeps a reservoir of fuel to pump even if rest of fuel sloshes away on hills or a corner.
But if parked on a steep enough angle, can drain and leave you fuel starved

 

Where is the fuel pump, when the car is facing down bank, could it be the petrol is now not being drawn up, when car is facing down bank

 

I understand the fuel pump might be in the tank, part of the fuel level assembly, accessible from inside the car I hope, well it was on my Clio Mk1 so chances are it will be the same with the MK2 that the Kangoo is based on.

But facing down bank the tank will be raised towards the level of the injector.

Now this vehicle is second hand so I have no idea how it has been treated in the past to cause what issues I am starting to discover where I do happen to know one should not run out of fuel as the pump is actually lubricated by the fuel running through it and if it is not lubricated it can fail or at least be damaged, where I am wondering if that is the case being seen here, but that doesn't explain the problem only occurring on hils and not on the flat.

Now I know after market non return valves are available for fitment to petrol fuel lines, but I need to know the reasons for them to be available to be offered for sale and wonder if living in hilly country is one of those reasons, where I suppose a weak fuel pump could be a reason too.

 

According to our sponsors, this is the tank

Pump and sender unit nearest driver so if nose downhill, would have thought best situation.
But if car tilted sideways as well, fluid could run that way ?

 

Manufacturers will have considered the Spiderman scenario. Trouble at mill. Something not right in the fuel delivery system.

 

Ah that's what the tank looks like, but the last time this failure to start happened was yesterday when I had just under half a tank of petrol and no the vehicle was not tilted to the side.

Ah I remember why I prefer to park nose down hill - good for bump starting if it is necessary, but otherwise easier to free wheel down hill to find level ground again if need be - steering lock off of course. and then there's the engine brake of being in gear

But if for fuel to drain back into the tank, that could suggest there is an air leak somewhere, if it is the fuel is draining back and the problem isn't the plugs refusing to fire, for this might not be a fuel problem but it could be an ignition problem, where I only thought about the fuel becasue of the hill issue.

 

...........But if for fuel to drain back into the tank, that could suggest there is an air leak somewhere, if it is the fuel is draining back and the problem isn't the plugs refusing to fire, for this might not be a fuel problem but it could be an ignition problem, where I only thought about the fuel becasue of the hill issue.

With in tank pumps, fuel draining back is not an issue, the pump simply pushes it back to where it should be when you turn the key.
Leaks aren't good cos fuel can pee out of them, which isn't clever but fuel running back is not an issue with petrol burners.
Can be for Diseasals.

 

So what could be happening to prevent starting on an incline when in fact the fuel tank is closer to the engine height, so in effect less effort required to lift the fuel, it's got me, but at least I am reading, it's quite a common complaint. Where I guess until I have an idea what the problem might be I should avoid parking on inclines. But at least I know, if it doesn't start, just switch off and try again for now and nope it's not a fault that is developing.

 

Now it is I am planning an interim plus service for next month where I notice the fuel filter should have been changed at 40k, where I wonder was it, but anyway, I will be added fuel filter to my list of things to change and see what happens after that.

 

I have had it twice now always when I have parked on a hill where in my case when the car is facing down hill.

A car not starting twice, it may well be chance, it cal only be level or on a hill :grin2:

 

An update on the issue, for it happened again yesterday, but I wasn't on a hill this time I was on the flat, but exactly the same problem - no start with the first turn of the key, no start with the second turn of the key and on the third it started and then something happened to give me a clue what the problem is. What happened was the doors unlocked.

Ah is that the problem, something to do with the immobiliser and with it, what I'm doing wrong?

See, the problem is, the central locking works on all but two doors, the door with the petrol lock thing in it and the driver's door. Now what I did yesterday was instead of keying the plip to unlock all the doors as I normally would and then use the key on the driver's door lock, I didn't bother plipping and just unlocked the driver's door. Casting my mind back to when the issue happened on a hill, I had done the same there as well, so I'm thinking the problem is something to do with the communication between the immobiliser and the door locks and is it a true fault, perhaps not, I will see when I fix the doors.

But the engine started on the third try, why would that be if it was immobilised due to the doors not being unlocked ?