I have just replaced my Cabasse with Pioneer DEH-5900MP and it sounds MUCH better - deeper bass, punchier sound. Try it with any CD radio - just to compare ;-)

 

I always thought the Cabasse system in my Dad's 52 Privilege was one of the better factory fit systems I'd heard... Not as good as the top-spec B5.5 Passat that followed, but certainly better than the L200 Warrior after that and the Trafic he's got now, and my stupidly expensive Kenwood HU hooked up to stupidly expensive Infinity components all round

 

Whell, for my old Lag I I bought Focal speakers with separate crossovers but used only Pioneer HU without Amp.
After that, I changed in Suzuki SX4 standard HU with latest Pioneer and only have changed HF speakers and it worked way better than my Focals .

So I've learned my lesson, first upgrade of factory fitted HU, than speakers if realy neccessary.
There's one more thing to do before changing complete speaker system - first change factory installed capacitors (serial to HF's), I did this even with Focal's crossover, then if not satisfied, change the HF speakers. I was schocked the difference it makes.
And it doesn't cost you fortune like new set of front and rear 2/3 way system, amp. etc. If you are reasonable. Don't expect miracles but it will sound at least 80% better than standard factory supplied HU with preinstalled high freq. speakers and condensers of lowest class.

 

I checked the tweeters in my Laguna II Privilege - I was surprised, since the tweeters looks pretty solid - metal dome type, and they even have a crossover - it's a simple one, just a capacitor and a coil but at least it has one .

As shown on the picture below, the capacitor is a classic chip sh**, the cheapes bipolar, 4,7uF - if you replace it with some higher grade cap, you will get much smother high freq. response (on the pic is a high grade cap from my Lag I, 3,9uF which replaced original in Focal crossover) - so here size does matter :d:

Laguna II Privilege, HF speaker (Tweeter):



Metal dome:



The weekest component is preinstalled "Cabasse" Auditorium Tronic.

I was curious why it has such a week bass, so I desmantled it and searched the net for some specification about output amp - the data itself are impresing, but obviuosly is not enough (I believe it is a clear example what happens when you rely on computer design only, without experimenting in the real environment):

Cabasse Auditorium Tronic power amp IC:


So I desmantled my after market HU and here are both radios:

After market HU & Cabasse top PCB view, side-by-side:



So where to look for such a huge difference in sound?
Pioneer used discreet components while Cabasse (I suspect it is Philips) used SMD technology.

Both use 3300uF PS capacitor.

The only difference I could think of is this:

Pioneer HU:




Cabasse:



As you may notice or maybe not (I did since I know what to look for), I don't know English word for it - in Pioneer copper wire is thicker.

Now I'm not shure how it influenses the oveall sound here, but in crossovers on the bass unit, thicker copper wire means better (lower) bass response.

But I'm not shure if it would help here - will try.

There's one more thing - TDA7560 on input shoul have 0,1uF cap value for 16Hz response - I couldn't read the value on the board (PIN 11, 12 counted from both directions/4 channel), I would need a microscope for that
But let's suppose it's OK (just for the peace of mind

Cabasse Auditorium Tronic, Input capacitors:




And my appologies to Administrator for numerous changes in recent hour ;.)

 

There's one more thing - TDA7560 on input shoul have 0,1uF cap value for 16Hz response - I couldn't read the value on the board (PIN 11, 12 counted from both directions/4 channel), I would need a microscope for that
But let's suppose it's OK (just for the peace of mind

Cabasse Auditorium Tronic, Input capacitors:

Actually I did it .
For experiment, I replaced input original capacitor (just one) with Wima 0,1uF MKS and found that the bass improoved a lot .
So I'll change another one and leave it just on front channels, to be able to show everybody the difference in sound (together with changed capacitors on tweeters) :d.

Greetings from Zagreb.

 

I've found in my experimentation with Tripath Class-D amps that input caps matter a lot to bass response and are something that a lot of manufacturers cut back on for some reason. Next project is to install a Tripath amp in the car for a little bit more oomph (although depending on the input current limiter, at ~14v, a pair of them may not produce that much more power than the HU's internal amp... They prefer 24v (although the quality should be a LOT better than the rubbish amp in the Kenwood HU) However, I suspect the issue is probably more with the front doors in the Lag 1, they don't appear to have any decently sealed volume to act as a speaker cabinet... The back placement of 6.5" speakers is pretty good (in contrast to the 4" roof mounts in the estate I used to have!), and depends upon how full the boot is, but I was wondering if Phase 2 front door cards are any better, as the design is quite noticeably different.

 

About doors..on my Lag2, speakers are held with 2 screws only - as the speakers are in plastic housing, those two screws are deforming it's housing - I'll put additional 2 screws.

And about capacitors, as yom may read, I made a success - after replacing just one capacitor on input of power amp, the difference is clearly noticable - more bass punch.
Now I will play eith some different types of cap's - right now inside is one Wima MKS due to its small size, but I'll try to replace it with MKP which is much bigger - in that case, I'll have to fix it somehow, against vibrations.

So welcome back Cabasse :d.

 

This is interesting.....

As per my signature below, myself and my wife both have Laguna II's.
Hers is the 02 V6, and mine is the 03 1.8.

Both are Dynamique spec and idenitical, with the "Tuner list" radio / CD.

However..... the CD in mine sounds superior to hers. With mine having alot more Bass. Even though the bass / trebble settings are set the same on both units.

So i guess even though the units look the same on the facia, they are different manufacturers ?.

 

Possibly it's not about CD or at least CD only - yours might have a better amplifier and a subwoofer.

 

The interior makes a big difference... Since I switched to leather upholstery, the soundspace in my Lag is totally different. Using the same speakers, the car sounds like a much more open space with the leather upholstery - partially I guess this can be attributed to the comparative reflectiveness of leather vs. the standard (not very nice) Expression upholstery fabric and the fact that the seats feel far more solidly constructed in general, but also the doorcards are different - the backing is much thicker on the Initiale ones, although the fronts have storage boxes in place of the strange tubes on the back of the Expression door behind the door pocket which I assumed were something to do with sound reproduction.

There are definitely several different versions/manufacturers of the Tuner List units even though they're identical from the front panel - Dialogys suggests that there are also quite a few different types of speakers which would be fitted as standard in a Lag 2. The woofers are very similar between the Expression and Initiale ones - just that the cone is paper on the former and some kind of woven material on the latter - both have identically pitiful magnets and plastic baskets (?!) The tweeters are very different though, with a much more substantial crossover network on the Initiale ones.

I don't think any Lag2s came as standard with subs, however very flash ones had a separate (and presumably more powerful than the 4x45w Cabasse integrated unit) amp in the boot in place of the CD changer, which was relocated to the dashboard.

 

Forget this Cabasse's 4x45Watts..it is unachievable in car. Anyway, wneh I replaced Cabasse with Pioneer, it was a huge step up - next step was replacing original capacitors monted on tweeters with quality audio capacitors.
I belive standard fitted radio in your wife's Laguna is of lower quality and that's it. try to replace it with any after market stereo and you will hear a huge difference. I beleive it has nothing to do with the upholstery.

 

I don't want to lose the dash display as I can't stand the garish brightness of modern head units and like to keep the cover on the stereo shut. This would be possible with a phase 2 Lag 2 as I think Sony units can tie in with the dash display on Update List cars... Perhaps I should just find a phase 2 display and stereo loom.

I have a very nice Kenwood HU with USB support for MP3/full iPod control and bluetooth built in, but it looks like a christmas ornament blinding me in the dark. Aside from that, the stereo as it is now in the Lag 2 sounds much better than I ever acheived in the Lag 1 with that HU and 6.5" Infinity speakers all round. I just want MP3 support and a bluetooth car kit and I'll be happy.

 

Yes, loosing the display is a tradeout to a better sound, speaking about your wife's Laguna with Carminat HU.

So it's the story with my after market Pioneer HU - I lost display and steering wheel controls, and I lost that very nice looks of original HU, but I gained MP3 and much better sound. But now it looks - poor, I admit.

 

Why externally amp the rears unless you absolutely have to. Waste of an amp driving rear fill. For a basic system, 4 channel amp driving fronts with chs 3&4 bridged for a sub. A 10" sub that's designed for small sealed enclosures (around 0.5ft3) will easily fit in a boot without much compromise on luggage space. No way you'll get 60hz out of a 5.25 in a door.

And I'm not sure there's any benefit in a tripath diy amp, power is cheap now, and physical size is getting smaller and smaller. getting something that fits under seats isn't hard.

Mirotvorac, I'm interested to know why speaker cable length is of any concern, I can't imagine it would make any real if the amp is attached to the speaker or 4 metres away in the boot.

 

Tripath amps are much, much higher quality than most car kit. They're also very cheap... But they're internally crossed over so I'd need a different mono amp for a sub.

Really, it would be better if Renault hadn't put 5.25" speakers in the Lag 2. The lag 1 hatch has 6.5" all the way round Having said that, my TDL bookshelf speakers don't show -3dB 'til 52Hz and they've only got 5.25" woofers. Admittedly, they're in a hefty wooden ported enclosure, not a plastic door panel though

 

As long as you don't buy the absolute bottom end of amplifiers, mass market car amps provide sufficient quality for the purpose. You can pick up an old Alpine 35 series amp (3537, 3555 etc) for very little coin and they will perform admirably. In a nutshell, its unlikely the amp is ever going to be the weakest point of a car stereo - as you correctly pointed out, the enclosure and the environment are the main issues.

Hence why I was interested in the suggestion that the amp should be as close to the speakers as possible - I can't see the point of this whatsoever.

It takes a fair amount of work (baffles and deadening) to get below 80hz in a car door, and below that there's the problem of rattles from the locking rods and window switches once you start to push big power at low frequencies. In the last car I got down to 63hz in the front doors using 6x9 midbass drivers mounted on a mdf baffle attached to the door frame with multiple layers of dynamat, deflection pads and the works.

 

There is some bad info at the beginning of this thread, even if it's old.

The low frequency cut-off is determined by the input cap and it makes a filter with the input impedance of the chip. The lower the cap value is, the higher the cut-off point. From an engineering point of view, it doesn't matter who makes the capacitor, what matters is it's value.

Second, the large toroid is a filter for the power supply. That should matter to the overall distortion but really, I don't think you would notice the difference between the two parts.
What matters most, is the type of amplifier chip is installed in the unit. I don't know what's happening in the Cabasse unit or the other one that you posted but my normal Laguna 2 cd-player has a TDA7385, that's not so great.
The only thing that differs is the output zobel network, but that shouldn't mess with the sound quality.
If you have some issues with the bass output, check the amplifier chip, and the input filter.