Took my 66 plate Megane for dealer service last week less than 20,000 miles on clock. Was advised rear discs and pads will need replaced soon but front are fine. I'm not a heavy braker and live in rural location so no reason for this plus front brakes should be of issue first! Any idea what could be wrong ?
jameshodson1
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It's far away in my memory. Never drove one myself.Remember something about overheating and warping.
Good to know the right word now : disk warped.. I would say 'shaking after use' or something.
Didn't learn this word at school.
But anyway : on the Megane4, should make a difference if you bought 'the best there is' (??)
I would think about buying the drilled, ventilated Brembo's just cause they look very pretty.
Don't know if they would last a lot longer. The brand has a good reputation and they are not cheap rubbish as far as I know.
My search for Meg4 discs delivered around 45 different ones in one online shop, prices starting at 16 pounds for the front, 46 pounds for the back. Cheaper than I expected. Also a lot of choice nowadays.
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Modern pads are far more abrasive then older ones which had Asbestos in them. So will wear discs more then say an old Tina in the 70s. Back then we never ever thought of changing discs unless we were uprating brakes.
Modern brakes, quality counts and it is very true that you get what you pay for.
Easy to get cheap brake pads and discs but how well they work and how long they last is another question.
Perforated help if discs are overheating but you are reducing friction area so are promoting wear and reducing stopping power. The latter quite possibly offset by cooler discs but in normal driving, I tend to think they are a gimmick rather then a need. Something to show off to your mates.
What the answer is on the Meg 4 is, dunno but frankly, 20K on a set of rears is disgusting.
A comment on the use of brakes for what it is worth.
Monday I was coming back down the M54 after dark.
Fairly typical rush hour traffic, two lane 60mph traffic jam.
Over best part of 10 miles I could see a Range Rover trying to bull its way past the outer lane jam. Every few minutes, even seconds, flash of brake lights as he slowed. Over the same period, I don't think I touched my brakes once, simply have a reasonable distance to the car in front and using the throttle to maintain.
Bet my brakes last far longer then his will.
Modern brakes, quality counts and it is very true that you get what you pay for.
Easy to get cheap brake pads and discs but how well they work and how long they last is another question.
Perforated help if discs are overheating but you are reducing friction area so are promoting wear and reducing stopping power. The latter quite possibly offset by cooler discs but in normal driving, I tend to think they are a gimmick rather then a need. Something to show off to your mates.
What the answer is on the Meg 4 is, dunno but frankly, 20K on a set of rears is disgusting.
A comment on the use of brakes for what it is worth.
Monday I was coming back down the M54 after dark.
Fairly typical rush hour traffic, two lane 60mph traffic jam.
Over best part of 10 miles I could see a Range Rover trying to bull its way past the outer lane jam. Every few minutes, even seconds, flash of brake lights as he slowed. Over the same period, I don't think I touched my brakes once, simply have a reasonable distance to the car in front and using the throttle to maintain.
Bet my brakes last far longer then his will.
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Never bought disks in my life, so I have no experience with these ones.
A perforated Brembo compared to a normal Brembo costs almost double, so I would never get that value back. You're right Dad.
I suppose they would use the same quality steel for both kinds.
About cheap stuff : I saw on the same website a set of blocks for 9 pounds.. Bosch would cost 2 or 3 times more but I would prefer the latter. :laugh:
A perforated Brembo compared to a normal Brembo costs almost double, so I would never get that value back. You're right Dad.
I suppose they would use the same quality steel for both kinds.
About cheap stuff : I saw on the same website a set of blocks for 9 pounds.. Bosch would cost 2 or 3 times more but I would prefer the latter. :laugh:
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Fit lots, one of the members on here, has had two sets of rear pads that I know to in the last couple of years, I fitted front discs and pads on his car not long ago. So in less than 3 years, 2 sets of discs and pads front, one set of discs, and two sets of pads, rear,. 1st set all round main agent parts ( and labour , but he got a deal )
Fist set he had fitted lasted no longer, and he is not a harsh braker
His front discs were heavily scored, and with his MOT due not much later than me doing other work, made an executive decision and changed them.. ( He was out the country , what could he do,, LOL)
The MOT laws on brakes around here seems high compared to what I hear on here, not saying it is..
But scored discs seem to be on most failures I come across, and lots of my customers use garages for MOT all over the city
(P.S. He is still speaking to me,.)
I put it down to , No asbestos in pads any more, and the material they use, though better for braking, is a harsher material, as it still has to absorb a hell of a lot of heat..
But could be miles off the mark, and the material is really just sh1t :wink2: :grin2:
Fist set he had fitted lasted no longer, and he is not a harsh braker
His front discs were heavily scored, and with his MOT due not much later than me doing other work, made an executive decision and changed them.. ( He was out the country , what could he do,, LOL)
The MOT laws on brakes around here seems high compared to what I hear on here, not saying it is..
But scored discs seem to be on most failures I come across, and lots of my customers use garages for MOT all over the city
(P.S. He is still speaking to me,.)
I put it down to , No asbestos in pads any more, and the material they use, though better for braking, is a harsher material, as it still has to absorb a hell of a lot of heat..
But could be miles off the mark, and the material is really just sh1t :wink2: :grin2:
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Since the techno guys here think the material in brake pads, lacking asbestos, is now harder (maybe more efficient braking but worse for life span)
And since it is known that one of the causes of early disc wear is the wrong combination of pads and discs ...
Wouldn't it be a good idea to buy aftermarket ones from a reliable brand (both disks and pads from the same brand), like Brembo, Bosch or TRW ...
Maybe even ask their customer service what parts are available in a surely compatible combination (especially about life span).
Even reading the specs well often prevents a wrong choice.
If there is no specific design problem, there is a good chance this would give a better result.
I could give it a try to ask a few companies about what they recommend for Megane IV or even Clio..
Thinking about it, ... Renault factory could have bought non matching sets (not knowingly perhaps) and therefor causing trouble on OEM installed brakes. Maybe they just had a good deal on disk A and pads B.... and they were a bad combination.
Ours : that guy on the forum had a Megane or Clio ?
I heard from a Renault mechanic that esp. the small brake pad types on Clio IV are rather terrible in life span.
He didn't notice the Meg IV yet , but they are often sold in petrol here and to people with low mileage per year*.... So maybe a little too early to say here.
*Reason being that a Meg4 diesel here has always been >2000 pounds more for the same trim level, petrol is being promoted by the government and diesel cars heavily taxed, general fear of getting in bad circumstances with a diesel tax wise and for DPF trouble on small drives. Then also : The megane here is not so popular any more in the business market and goes less for leasing (cost is higher).
And since it is known that one of the causes of early disc wear is the wrong combination of pads and discs ...
Wouldn't it be a good idea to buy aftermarket ones from a reliable brand (both disks and pads from the same brand), like Brembo, Bosch or TRW ...
Maybe even ask their customer service what parts are available in a surely compatible combination (especially about life span).
Even reading the specs well often prevents a wrong choice.
If there is no specific design problem, there is a good chance this would give a better result.
I could give it a try to ask a few companies about what they recommend for Megane IV or even Clio..
Thinking about it, ... Renault factory could have bought non matching sets (not knowingly perhaps) and therefor causing trouble on OEM installed brakes. Maybe they just had a good deal on disk A and pads B.... and they were a bad combination.
Ours : that guy on the forum had a Megane or Clio ?
I heard from a Renault mechanic that esp. the small brake pad types on Clio IV are rather terrible in life span.
He didn't notice the Meg IV yet , but they are often sold in petrol here and to people with low mileage per year*.... So maybe a little too early to say here.
*Reason being that a Meg4 diesel here has always been >2000 pounds more for the same trim level, petrol is being promoted by the government and diesel cars heavily taxed, general fear of getting in bad circumstances with a diesel tax wise and for DPF trouble on small drives. Then also : The megane here is not so popular any more in the business market and goes less for leasing (cost is higher).
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We try to buy a matching pair, discs and pads by the same manufacturer ..
But then we run into Mint*x, These eat pads, and the dust they produce, then the customer complains..
Then we have Del*hi and these are a hard pad, Customer then complains that brakes are too sharp, when in reality front suspension is worn, and needs shockers and springs..
So we have to try and work out what is in the best interest for the customer..
Not quite as easy as it seems..
So mota*uip seems to win over most times with me.. as these are not to harsh, dont produce much dust, and customers are happy with the price
Lots of makes out there,, but dont think any type will stop rear brakes wearing away with this electric braking system where/when fitted..
Again this is my point of view
Nothing more than that
But then we run into Mint*x, These eat pads, and the dust they produce, then the customer complains..
Then we have Del*hi and these are a hard pad, Customer then complains that brakes are too sharp, when in reality front suspension is worn, and needs shockers and springs..
So we have to try and work out what is in the best interest for the customer..
Not quite as easy as it seems..
So mota*uip seems to win over most times with me.. as these are not to harsh, dont produce much dust, and customers are happy with the price
Lots of makes out there,, but dont think any type will stop rear brakes wearing away with this electric braking system where/when fitted..
Again this is my point of view
Nothing more than that
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I have been outside a real garage for some years now but a little bit ago I noticed that some dealer pads on volvos and bmw's wore out really fast. I put it off to they were using really soft pads to have the calipers move more and have less problems with corrosion. Thing is, they did not wear the rotors much and from what ours says it seems the rotors get chewed. I have worked on several scenics with the electric hand brake and find it hard to understand why the newer version consumes more. A parking brake normaly causes no pad wear. Are you saying that the rear calipers have larger diameter pistons than before and the brake ballance has been changed?
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Its how they are adjusted by the motors
Brake discs get hot, and expand , with a manual hand brake, you apply and only real thing that can happen , brake cable snaps.
But because its a cable, there is an amount of free travel that the owner/driver can control, the more you pull the handbrake, the harder the calliper piston pushes on the brake pad.. But if the car still moves, pull a bit more
But on an electrical one, they have to take into consideration the brake disc cooling down and contracting, and the motor locks the pad to the disc with excessive force as such,, so when the disc cools down, the handbrake is still functioning..
But when the motors are released, a certain amount of the lining "sticks" as such, this micro layer then gets worn off each time the pedal is touched.....
Now use this formula over a 20,000 mile period, its not long before new pads and discs are needed..
Hope that slightly explains it,
Brake discs get hot, and expand , with a manual hand brake, you apply and only real thing that can happen , brake cable snaps.
But because its a cable, there is an amount of free travel that the owner/driver can control, the more you pull the handbrake, the harder the calliper piston pushes on the brake pad.. But if the car still moves, pull a bit more
But on an electrical one, they have to take into consideration the brake disc cooling down and contracting, and the motor locks the pad to the disc with excessive force as such,, so when the disc cools down, the handbrake is still functioning..
But when the motors are released, a certain amount of the lining "sticks" as such, this micro layer then gets worn off each time the pedal is touched.....
Now use this formula over a 20,000 mile period, its not long before new pads and discs are needed..
Hope that slightly explains it,
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Pad Lining.
I'm not convinced of the explanation (sorry Ourkid)
On the Scenic 2, the force was applied relative to incline, on a hill you could easily hear the EPB working hard.
Can't see that the piggy backs are different.
Yes the force will be such to allow for disc contraction (was it the old Citroen BX that was notorious for rolling away when brakes cooled ?) but even allowing for springiness in the cables forces would/should have been similar.
What may be different is that the retraction is motor driven and limited. If not enough, would promote rubbing and wear.
Why would it not be enough?
Probably so that rear brakes do not have any "lag", worn handbrake adjustment is one of the main causes of excessive footbrake travel.
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I was under the impression, which was created many years ago mainly, that if you would ask an average dealer or dealer mechanic about the brand of your new brakes they would answer : it came from a yellow box and the name on it was Renault.
Esp. Toyota would very exceptionally change over to an other brand for things in case like alternators (refurbished) and that would have been 'it'. I think they saw it as blasphemy there to not get car brand boxes in their storage.
I believe times change, one brand is not like the other, one dealership is different from the other and so are mechanics.
It's nice to hear you try to get the customer best bang for the buck. I never worked for a dealership. I don't know the inside of the story.
Electric : It seems the problems from the past with freezing and sticking of the pads, not realeasing at all, are gone too.
It's also one of these things the Roadside assistance has to come to people's houses for. When they are not able to drive off.
Electric handbrake and dito stuff was an option on my car which Renault Germany chose to get on my car as an extra.
The fact that I can not decide the amount of force on it makes me like a manual handbrake more.
Honestly, I still have the problem of stalling the engine when I drive off on a small incline and the car decides it has to assist me with the automatic handbrake and it doesn't release smooth enough. I never rev to 2000 rpm to drive off.. but need to do so when this system engages. I didn't accept it as a step forward yet.
I hear more wear on the brakes this way. The automatic system engages strongly and does not disengage completely in a fraction of a second like I would do myself with a normal handbrake but it does very slowly.
Result is that the brake pad is kind of rubbed of it's surface when I drive off this way.
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I don't know, can only guess at reasons for excessive wear. Just cannot see static application causing wear ?
I do know that I have driven motors for 40 plus years with manual handbrakes and never had an issue with them bar normal adjustment and the occassional cable replacement
With my Scenic got used to the EPB fairly quickly and had few gripes over its operation, control position was pants for when I wanted to apply it manually but that was about it.
To me the major issue comes when they go wrong and cost/time to fix, if we add extra pad/disc wear, it's a gizmo I can well live without.
I read somewhere that the wear with EPB was driving off with the EPB still on, letting it release only when the force of moving forced brakes to open.
On my Lag II with EPB (cable operated) first I control the clutch and throttle till EPB release and only them I drive off...
On my Lag II with EPB (cable operated) first I control the clutch and throttle till EPB release and only them I drive off...
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Cross that one off my list then :frown2:
Is this the same system as Kadjar (or maybe Koala) ?
Same disc/drum hybrid but cable box EPB ?
I am not quite as sceptical but do see many of these things as gimmicks to sell cars.
Some of them like leccie windows, AC, decent radios have become must haves.
Safety like ABS and Traction control not going to argue against.
But EPB, hill start assist, cruise control, media centres, lane guidance, radar controlled brakes.... WTF do we need them for ?
TPS and Oil Levels sensors ? Check your effing levels don't rely on gadgets.
Anyone who does need them ought to learn how to drive or get a chauffer !
Bloke on another forum was moaning that when he went past a slip road with lower limit then the carriageway he was on, the car cameras picked up the signs and hit the brakes for him !!! That's getting turned off if it ever creeps onto my car !
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