No idea whats going on, but I would ask them to put it on the lift and demonstrate the serviceable tolerance limits being approached

 

Handbrake binding, caliper or rear pads binding.
I expect 30K plus from fronts and about double that from rears but obviously depends on usage.

 

Thats what i thought but the dealership reckon there is nothing wrong total rubbish!! Its going into another garage to be inspected on Monday. I would expect 60,000 out of rears too

 

Do well get 60,000 On rear brakes with an electronic hand brake with motors on each calliper,,,
If over 15, 000 done well..

 

Why would the EPB back a difference Ourkid ?
Didn't seem to on my Scenic 2 with the big black box EPB.

 

They work harder Pete,,, They are nearllly as good as front brakes on these EPB .


Come across it all the time now, Not just on the Renault, but VAg Mercs and BMWs are the same.. The Nissan are the same, these wear down at an alarming rate ..

I put it down, the distance between Pad and disc, is so minute, that the heat of the disc, is actually wearing the pads away, but cannot find any real info why..
Anyone with this system fitted, touch the rear wheels after a run, they are as nearly as hot as the front wheels now

 

They work harder Pete,,, They are nearly as good as front brakes on these EPB .

I concur. Earlier this year I changed both Scenic rear discs, because of a noisy bearing.
Even now, I Overbrake.
Couldn't & can't believe how much work the rear brakes do. Compared to other cars (Many) I've driven.

 

So are we saying that I can't expect more than 20,000 miles out of rear discs and pads ??

 

Looks like it.
Comes as a surprise to me as well.
I trust Ourkid's knowledge on this sort of thing. He is a working mechanic so sees many issues across a range of cars.
You can obviously inspect your own brakes to see if the dealer was telling the truth about the actual wear.
Looks like newer EPB systems cause this :frown2:

 

It's going to be inspected by another Renault dealer and an independent garage on Monday. Honestly can't believe that!!

 

Having read this thread I was very surprised by the various aspects of the brake wear experienced as in my case I bought my Scenic with 12000 miles on the clock in November 2010 since then I've covered at total of nearly 50000 miles and i'm still on the original pads and discs so unless they were changed before I bought the car which had covered 13000 miles which I doubt then is my brake wear exceptional in view of comments on this thread.

 

What OurKid reckons is with the piggy back motor type EPBs, that someone would be doing well to get 15000 miles from rear and exceptionally well to get 60K.

I know with my old Scenic (with the Black Box and cable EPB) I changed rear pads not too long after I had it.
Not sure of exact mileage before I got rid of the car but at least 30K on those.... didn't change discs so they may have been original... may not have been, I bought the beasty with about 60K mileage.

It is common practice now to change discs with pads. Once pads are worn it is almost certain that discs will also be below maker's specs. Brakes bed in far quicker as well. From a garage's point of view, far safer to change all then risk a compensation claim cos they let the vehicle out with less then perfect brakes.
Must admit that I've rarely felt the need to change discs but I am aware that pads need time to bed in and allow for it.
I am also another who does not use brakes heavily. See so many drivers who seem to live on the brakes.

 

I am also another who does not use brakes heavily. See so many drivers who seem to live on the brakes.

My OM Taught me to drive on the gears. (1970)
My driving instructor Insisted on using brakes, as they are cheaper than transmissions.
2008 Scenic 95K miles. Front discs at 85K as they were corroded, not worn. Rear discs August, as the bearing went noisy on one.
2010 Tragic 164K miles, one set of front discs & lots of pads according to AA Service history. I've done 20K (inc towing) & still not changed any pads.
IMHO, tis the quality of the steel, of lack of, from which modern discs are made.

 

I honestly can't believe that on any car rear brakes would be work down by 20,000 miles. Costly as rears are more expensive than fronts too

 

Any news from the other garage on Monday ?
Too late to think about it now but : Wouldn't tell them the story if you consult an other one. Just ask them to check the brakes while you stand there too.

But on the other hand, if 'Ours' says it's possible, I believe what he says.

 

Took car to independent Renault specialist. They cannot find any reason it fault related to the rear brakes and tell me that they just run down quickly!! Seemingly the new Clio only does 15 to 20000 miles on front pads and discs!! Shocking

 

I would consider to replace with an other brand pads and discs, premium brand / quality if possible.

I remember the Ford Sierra in old days had a problem with deforming discs on some series. Bad thing there was that people buying other brands often had the same problem as they were similar quality, exact copies (same design problem), made in the same factory or if they were unlucky : even bigger junk.

It seemed the right thing to do there was to buy perforated ones, better ventilated.

What I mean to say : need to be inventive sometimes. Buying others and better could maybe help ! Don't know if they exist already or what brand is best for Meg4.

 

Ford issue was, wheels not put on, and brake pedal pressed, design of the calliper made the pads stick at an angle, and when the wheel was put back on, Disc warped...

 

It's far away in my memory. Never drove one myself.Remember something about overheating and warping.
Good to know the right word now : disk warped.. I would say 'shaking after use' or something.
Didn't learn this word at school.

But anyway : on the Megane4, should make a difference if you bought 'the best there is' (??)
I would think about buying the drilled, ventilated Brembo's just cause they look very pretty.
Don't know if they would last a lot longer. The brand has a good reputation and they are not cheap rubbish as far as I know.

My search for Meg4 discs delivered around 45 different ones in one online shop, prices starting at 16 pounds for the front, 46 pounds for the back. Cheaper than I expected. Also a lot of choice nowadays.

 

Modern pads are far more abrasive then older ones which had Asbestos in them. So will wear discs more then say an old Tina in the 70s. Back then we never ever thought of changing discs unless we were uprating brakes.
Modern brakes, quality counts and it is very true that you get what you pay for.
Easy to get cheap brake pads and discs but how well they work and how long they last is another question.
Perforated help if discs are overheating but you are reducing friction area so are promoting wear and reducing stopping power. The latter quite possibly offset by cooler discs but in normal driving, I tend to think they are a gimmick rather then a need. Something to show off to your mates.
What the answer is on the Meg 4 is, dunno but frankly, 20K on a set of rears is disgusting.

A comment on the use of brakes for what it is worth.
Monday I was coming back down the M54 after dark.
Fairly typical rush hour traffic, two lane 60mph traffic jam.
Over best part of 10 miles I could see a Range Rover trying to bull its way past the outer lane jam. Every few minutes, even seconds, flash of brake lights as he slowed. Over the same period, I don't think I touched my brakes once, simply have a reasonable distance to the car in front and using the throttle to maintain.
Bet my brakes last far longer then his will.

 

Never bought disks in my life, so I have no experience with these ones.

A perforated Brembo compared to a normal Brembo costs almost double, so I would never get that value back. You're right Dad.
I suppose they would use the same quality steel for both kinds.

About cheap stuff : I saw on the same website a set of blocks for 9 pounds.. Bosch would cost 2 or 3 times more but I would prefer the latter. :laugh:

 

Fit lots, one of the members on here, has had two sets of rear pads that I know to in the last couple of years, I fitted front discs and pads on his car not long ago. So in less than 3 years, 2 sets of discs and pads front, one set of discs, and two sets of pads, rear,. 1st set all round main agent parts ( and labour , but he got a deal )
Fist set he had fitted lasted no longer, and he is not a harsh braker

His front discs were heavily scored, and with his MOT due not much later than me doing other work, made an executive decision and changed them.. ( He was out the country , what could he do,, LOL)
The MOT laws on brakes around here seems high compared to what I hear on here, not saying it is..
But scored discs seem to be on most failures I come across, and lots of my customers use garages for MOT all over the city
(P.S. He is still speaking to me,.)

I put it down to , No asbestos in pads any more, and the material they use, though better for braking, is a harsher material, as it still has to absorb a hell of a lot of heat..
But could be miles off the mark, and the material is really just sh1t :wink2: :grin2:

 

One thing I can say about brakes is, avoid no named eBay rotors and pads. Some of them are cheap copies with very poor stopping times. I stick with OEM supplied braking hardware, and Brembo for aftermarket! TRW are also good from what I've seen.

 

If they look like this, ... you're a little behind on maintenance.

 

The one on the left, colour it in with a silver sharpie and send it!

On a serious note, wow...... those are bad! One on the right kind of looks photo-shopped to me though.

 

Since the techno guys here think the material in brake pads, lacking asbestos, is now harder (maybe more efficient braking but worse for life span)
And since it is known that one of the causes of early disc wear is the wrong combination of pads and discs ...

Wouldn't it be a good idea to buy aftermarket ones from a reliable brand (both disks and pads from the same brand), like Brembo, Bosch or TRW ...
Maybe even ask their customer service what parts are available in a surely compatible combination (especially about life span).
Even reading the specs well often prevents a wrong choice.
If there is no specific design problem, there is a good chance this would give a better result.

I could give it a try to ask a few companies about what they recommend for Megane IV or even Clio..
Thinking about it, ... Renault factory could have bought non matching sets (not knowingly perhaps) and therefor causing trouble on OEM installed brakes. Maybe they just had a good deal on disk A and pads B.... and they were a bad combination.

Ours : that guy on the forum had a Megane or Clio ?
I heard from a Renault mechanic that esp. the small brake pad types on Clio IV are rather terrible in life span.
He didn't notice the Meg IV yet , but they are often sold in petrol here and to people with low mileage per year*.... So maybe a little too early to say here.

*Reason being that a Meg4 diesel here has always been >2000 pounds more for the same trim level, petrol is being promoted by the government and diesel cars heavily taxed, general fear of getting in bad circumstances with a diesel tax wise and for DPF trouble on small drives. Then also : The megane here is not so popular any more in the business market and goes less for leasing (cost is higher).

 

We try to buy a matching pair, discs and pads by the same manufacturer ..
But then we run into Mint*x, These eat pads, and the dust they produce, then the customer complains..
Then we have Del*hi and these are a hard pad, Customer then complains that brakes are too sharp, when in reality front suspension is worn, and needs shockers and springs..

So we have to try and work out what is in the best interest for the customer..
Not quite as easy as it seems..

So mota*uip seems to win over most times with me.. as these are not to harsh, dont produce much dust, and customers are happy with the price

Lots of makes out there,, but dont think any type will stop rear brakes wearing away with this electric braking system where/when fitted..

Again this is my point of view

Nothing more than that

 

We try to buy a matching pair, discs and pads by the same manufacturer ..
So we have to try and work out what is in the best interest for the customer..
Not quite as easy as it seems..

Lots of makes out there,, but dont think any type will stop rear brakes wearing away with this electric braking system where/when fitted..

Again this is my point of view
Nothing more than that

I was under the impression, which was created many years ago mainly, that if you would ask an average dealer or dealer mechanic about the brand of your new brakes they would answer : it came from a yellow box and the name on it was Renault.
Esp. Toyota would very exceptionally change over to an other brand for things in case like alternators (refurbished) and that would have been 'it'. I think they saw it as blasphemy there to not get car brand boxes in their storage.


I believe times change, one brand is not like the other, one dealership is different from the other and so are mechanics.
It's nice to hear you try to get the customer best bang for the buck. I never worked for a dealership. I don't know the inside of the story.


Electric : It seems the problems from the past with freezing and sticking of the pads, not realeasing at all, are gone too.
It's also one of these things the Roadside assistance has to come to people's houses for. When they are not able to drive off.
Electric handbrake and dito stuff was an option on my car which Renault Germany chose to get on my car as an extra.
The fact that I can not decide the amount of force on it makes me like a manual handbrake more.
Honestly, I still have the problem of stalling the engine when I drive off on a small incline and the car decides it has to assist me with the automatic handbrake and it doesn't release smooth enough. I never rev to 2000 rpm to drive off.. but need to do so when this system engages. I didn't accept it as a step forward yet.
I hear more wear on the brakes this way. The automatic system engages strongly and does not disengage completely in a fraction of a second like I would do myself with a normal handbrake but it does very slowly.
Result is that the brake pad is kind of rubbed of it's surface when I drive off this way.

 

I have been outside a real garage for some years now but a little bit ago I noticed that some dealer pads on volvos and bmw's wore out really fast. I put it off to they were using really soft pads to have the calipers move more and have less problems with corrosion. Thing is, they did not wear the rotors much and from what ours says it seems the rotors get chewed. I have worked on several scenics with the electric hand brake and find it hard to understand why the newer version consumes more. A parking brake normaly causes no pad wear. Are you saying that the rear calipers have larger diameter pistons than before and the brake ballance has been changed?

 

Its how they are adjusted by the motors

Brake discs get hot, and expand , with a manual hand brake, you apply and only real thing that can happen , brake cable snaps.
But because its a cable, there is an amount of free travel that the owner/driver can control, the more you pull the handbrake, the harder the calliper piston pushes on the brake pad.. But if the car still moves, pull a bit more

But on an electrical one, they have to take into consideration the brake disc cooling down and contracting, and the motor locks the pad to the disc with excessive force as such,, so when the disc cools down, the handbrake is still functioning..
But when the motors are released, a certain amount of the lining "sticks" as such, this micro layer then gets worn off each time the pedal is touched.....
Now use this formula over a 20,000 mile period, its not long before new pads and discs are needed..

Hope that slightly explains it,

 

Where does this lining come from?

 

Pad Lining.


I'm not convinced of the explanation (sorry Ourkid)

On the Scenic 2, the force was applied relative to incline, on a hill you could easily hear the EPB working hard.
Can't see that the piggy backs are different.
Yes the force will be such to allow for disc contraction (was it the old Citroen BX that was notorious for rolling away when brakes cooled ?) but even allowing for springiness in the cables forces would/should have been similar.
What may be different is that the retraction is motor driven and limited. If not enough, would promote rubbing and wear.
Why would it not be enough?
Probably so that rear brakes do not have any "lag", worn handbrake adjustment is one of the main causes of excessive footbrake travel.