Jeez! Not the first Time I heard of things like this though mate!

Glad its sorted!

 

Thanks mate.

Of course I had to use the car on a 120 mile round-trip with a wheel I couldn't remove if I got a puncture....

I was sweating every minute of it.

The wheel looks a bit scorched around where the bolt was, but will be fine once I get the chance to refurb them.

Paul

 

when my car goes to the garage, locking nuts off, regulars spare 4 on

 

I haven't got any on the meg, if someone takes my wheels they are desperate as they are only steelies, ha. However i have on the Rocco as it has 17"wheels on it. I think I shall be doing the same.

Glad you managed to get it sorted Paul.

 

I hear the AA and RAC have reported lots of instances of wheel bolts shearing because they are far too tight because they've been tightened with air wrenches.

I think it's worth getting a torque wrench (they're not that expensive) and loosening and re-tightening correctly the wheel bolts every time they are touched by a garage or tyre-fitters.

Once watched a fitter change a lorry tyre. He then tightened with the air wrench, brought out a huge torque wrench and, sure enough, it clicked on each bolt he tried it on. I couldn't believe that they would have the correct equipment but use it so incorrectly.

No offence to any tyre-fitters here

 

I'm scared about having the alloys on my Clio changed now Look forward to the pics etc of the refurb Paul, my NSF is bashed on the lip from a similar situation as yours.

 

Had this happen on my Laguna, both locking keys sheared off and snapped, I was doing the same as Vel, using a breaker bar and hand power. Only difference was it happened on the first wheel I wanted to undo, only wanted to paint the calipers silver instead of a black rusty colour! I can't even blame a tyre fitter form mine, as I was the one who did up the wheel nuts from changing brake pads a few weeks back. I used a torque wrench and used the correct figures given in haynes. The lower values too, I always do rather than risk over tightening.

Funny thing is I've never had this problem with any other locking nut on any other car. I've even used aftermarket sets bought from my local motor factor and they never broke, just seems to be with Renaults?? They never seemed to fit tight and had a slight bit of room to move, which is prob why they sheared off.

My locat B.E.T.S did a great job of removeing 3 nuts with their 3 different types of removal tools, the last one wouldn't budge though, they ended up welding a socket onto the nut, after 5 attempts of this it finally came off.

I too had some scorch marks from the Mig but they came off with a bit of alloy cleaner. Still might repaint them though as I managed to spill some brake fluid on one when my bleeder broke and the pipe dumped fluid all over my wheel. I now have a stain.

Look forward to seeing your refurbed wheels Paul.

 

Thanks guys.

I'm not trying to panic anyone (I still think locking nuts/bolts are a good idea), its just the practicalities involved when people use inappropriate tools to fit & remove them. And in my line of work, I'll remove & replace wheels more often than most people.

Its the old saying 'a chain is only as strong as its weakest link' - in this case, I think the key is rather soft (after all, I cracked it with hand pressure), but equally, its not intended to be cranked up to the max either....

I'm ironically very busy over the next few weeks (am booked up solid until near the end of September) - no complaints from me about that though:d . So I'm not entirely sure when the wheels will get done - I fancy a change of colour (as if the car isn't distinctive enough ), and I have a surplus of a shade I used on a Civic Type R over a year ago - so I'm using that.

Will keep you posted once its done.

Thanks again, (its reassuring, but also unsettling) to know I'm not the only one this type of thing happens to...

Paul

 

What sort of colour is the Surplus you have from the civic Paul?

I was thining a colour change too. Might try to recreate the black chrome affect I had on a set of alloys I had a few years back. A Black base coat with silver laquer top coat. Gives a sort of dark chrome affect, should look good on my car against the dark body work... I hope! :d

 

Its difficult to describe, its definitely more grey than silver with the following ingredients; aluminium flake, black, white, blue & violet. So its fairly dark with a hint of blue & violet through it.

Its the genuine colour (some type R's are a basic silver), but this shade I believe was optional.

The Dupont code is X0827 - just in case you live near a paint supplier who uses the Dupont system. I would also recommend looking at their selection of paint chips - you may find a readily-available colour which does the job without adding to the painting process. I need to do that at times when its a 'non-standard silver' wheel - there are very few which have their own paint code.

I also like the fact it won't show up brake dust!

Paul

 

Sounds like a very nice colour, should look good on your Velsatis . I'm gonna be on the watch out now for any Type R's to see if I can spot it!

I prefer the darker colours too as they don't show up the brake dust so bad. Couple of miles down the road and silver wheels look grey anyway from it all, wonder why I bother cleaning them half the time! :rofl:

 

Last time I re fitted a wheel on my Lag was at OH cousins who has an air gun........I used my common sense to knock the torque down a notch for the locking bolt so hopefully I shouldn't have this problem :crazy:

 

The first thing I do when I buy any car regardless of its age is to remove the wheel bolts or nuts clean their threads apply a good dose of anti-seize compound and tighten them up to their correct torque. Then again especially after the local mechanic or tyre fitter has been at them.

I also remember reading somewhere that the anti-theft type bolts should be torqued slightly less than the others - if I come accross the info., I'll post it up.

 

I also remember reading somewhere that the anti-theft type bolts should be torqued slightly less than the others - if I come accross the info., I'll post it up.

That would be quite interesting to see.

I've not got a spare

Neither have I, i've got one of those spray can jobbies. If it is a bad puncture/blow-out then I will call the RAC. No-where to put my spare now.

I have never used a torque wrench for wheel nuts/bolts. I always tighten them by hand first, nick them up with my socket set, then lower the car and nick them up again, say nick, enough to know they are on. Then check them after a bit of driving too.

 

I've not got a spare

 

If you ain't got a torque wrench - buy a sliding bar wheel brace - tighten the bolts using the bar at is shortest and then (theoretically) it should be easy to loosen them when using it extended. Ideally the bolts or nuts should be checked about 20 minutes later or after a short run - especially if alloys are fitted

 

Good tip. I have got one, just never used it, ever, for tightening wheel nuts. Can't say i have ever had a problem either, touches wood now.

EDIT: I have to agree with some other posts though. i have had to swing off the bar to get bolts/nuts off before now, ha.

 

I was at a tyre fitters having some tyres fitted and also there was a bloke with a very nice 4x4.

The fitter had just finished fitting 2 new tyres for him, the 4x4 driver would not even let the fitter put the wheels back on his car, he did it himself, even brought his own oil can for the threads and his own torque wrench.

DIY and get it right.

 

The first time you use a torque wrench to do up the nuts, you'll be amazed at how 'loose' they should be.

Well, I was anyway

 

Hmm, I quite like the bolt-covering secure-locked centre cap design of my wheels and several other Renaults - the non-load bearing locking bolt is a much better idea as you can't do it up more tightly than you can with the little key

 

I had a similar set up on my scorpio - but don't think you're immune from problems - I managed to snap a bolt just using hand pressure (on a customer's car - seperate thread).

I think the over-riding message is clear - tight, but not too tight (sounds like a line from a Carry On movie!).

Paul

 

rattle guns for wheel nuts

out here, its a real problem, most tyre shops like to use air compressed air rattle guns cos it quicker, they should be banned, i saw a television programme, where a chalenge was made for an average person to try and remove them using the tool kit supplied by the manufacturer,not many suceeded, i insist they use a torque wrench,or lower the compression on their compressor. many a wheel stud has been broken cos of these sods,it doesnt take long to do the nuts up using the old fashion wheel brace.

 

On the lagII the nonlocking torque is 105, 95 for locking...

 

When I put the alloys on the Megane I bought a brand new set of wheel bolts including locking ones. As they were after market type (I assume) they were not the sort with a "key hole" in them, but the ones with a pattern around the edge that required a suitable socket to remove. I thought they looked a little more resilient to shearing comapred to the locking bolts on my brothers Clio for example that have the "key hole" type. I noticed on the Megane that there was no difference between the standard bolts and the "alloy wheel bolts" (hence I felt ripped off) I took advice on this and was told that the steely wheel bolts were not at all compatible with alloy wheels. I think I was told a porky pie there (who was it...? It was on this forum... )

On the Cavalier I'm using the very same wheel bolts that held the steels on after this experience. I checked them regularly for tightness for a while and no problem. Glad I didn't spend another £30 on a full set! There is a centre plate on the Cavs wheels that requires a special adapter key (freely available on fleaBay!) to remove and I figure thats good enough, also I seriously doubt anyone would pinch the wheels anyway TBH If new tyres are needed (I can never aford a full set so this is feasible for me) I remove the wheel(s) stick them in the van and get them swapped over, then on refitting to the car I know that I will be able to easily remove the wheel

 

Just as a FYI..I have my wheels off and on more than most (I take them off to clean them and I swap between the two sets). Over the last 3 Lag2's I have discarded a couple of sets of locking bolts as they have become suspect. The last set of lockers I bought (Gen Ren) came with two keys but here's the thing they have different sized heads. I had put the smaller one in the boot and the wheel brace was too big for it. Luckily for me this came to light when I was at home and I had the other key in the garage. Now I keep the smaller one at home...Dave

 

In my experience I have found the anti-theft wheel bolts don't give any trouble if torqued correctly and the threads are lightly smeared with anti-seize compound. And as Bpowell555 says on the Lag II the keyed bolt has a lower torque. Less torque doesn't always mean it will be less tight as it will dpend on the elasticity of the metal in the bolt.
When changing wheel bolts you need to check their compatibility regarding length, the angle and size of the countersink - also some alloy wheels have to have a free floating ring under the bolt head.

A smear of anti-seize compound between the wheel and the hub also helps a lot.

 

A smear of anti-seize compound between the wheel and the hub also helps a lot.

metal on metal corrosion

 

Most anti-seize compound (copper grease as it is sometimes called) contains a metal compound thus reducing the risk of electrolytic action (corrosion) between the different metals.

 

We use that on the ships. Good stuff.

 

What about lithium grease?

Cheers!

:d

 

What about lithium grease?

i wouldnt want to get that wet, lol

 

Lithium Molybendum (sometimes called LM002) - d'oh!

That's a good one also.

Paul